DLC and other paid services

[Rage]

The game industry isnt as greed as you my think. Its dirty in a in since. I always hear how people complain about having to pay for DLC and normally i pay it no mind. Recently those ive become annoyed with people crying about have to pay for my line play? Do you really know my the companies are charging for these services?

[Rage]

Heres the topic im ranting about.

http://www.infinitymugenteam.com/Forum_345/index.php?topic=34769.msg418421#msg418421

Maybe i posed this wrong because it seems more like a jumble of words then a Question.

Anyhow here's my rant. I thought people would have replied to the topic. To me for people to read it and pass it up they are just being selfish jack wagons. There are reasons that game companies do what they do. everyone always say they are greedy and just want more money when that's only part of it. Yeah they want more but why? greed? I think not. Developers charge for these services and dlc so the can get more money from the product they crafted for YOUR enjoyment. Reason is because they are the last in line to get paid. By the time the money drizzles down to them they dont have much. DLC and online service doesn't go through anyone. It goes straight to the developers.

This is why the create DLC and charge for online. So they can get the money they deserve. They do all the work but are the last ones in line to be paid. This also create other problem for those who work in this industry but im not commenting on that now.

When i hear people cry about being cheated and seeing  people pass over that thread when i was posing a question to inform people it angers me. it makes me not want to do this type of work. i feel like canceling my wip because im so annoyed. But that wont solve any thing so i guess i will have to just pay it no attention like always. This is my rant

Rage OUT!

Edit: Fixed my grammar Sorry

Don't call people "selfish jack wagons" just because they don't reply to your post"

[Acey]

I merged your two topics. I didn't reply because it was a slop of a post and I couldn't understand a bunch of what your wrote. "Its dirty in a in since." or "pay for my line play?" Below is my attempt to edit your assignment.

The game industry isnt as greed as you my think. Its dirty in a in since. I always hear how people complain about having to pay for DLC and normally i pay it no mind. Recently those ive become annoyed with people crying about have to pay for my line play? Do you really know my the companies are charging for these services?

The game industry isnt isn't as greed greedy as you my may think. Its dirty in a in since. ?? I always hear how people complaining about having to pay for DLC. and Normally i I pay it no mind. but recently those though ive I've become annoyed with people crying about have having to pay for my line online play?. Do you really know my why the companies are charging for these services?

[Jelux Da Casual]

I merged your two topics. I didn't reply because it was a slop of a post and I couldn't understand a bunch of what your wrote. "Its dirty in a in since." or "pay for my line play?" Below is my attempt to edit your assignment.

The game industry isnt isn't as greed greedy as you my may think. Its dirty in a in since. ?? I always hear how people complaining about having to pay for DLC. and Normally i I pay it no mind. but recently those though ive I've become annoyed with people crying about have having to pay for my line online play?. Do you really know my why the companies are charging for these services?

Lol, what's the grade Professor?

But yeah, DLC exists because developers need a way to counter-act "trade retailers" making used merchandise profit without seeing any themselves. The same thing goes for this new "Online Pass" movement, selling new copies with the pass and used buyers having to paid $10 bucks.

An honestly, I don't understand my people complain about having to pay for Xbox Live. For what it does and what it offers, it is completely worth it.

[Acey]

Well, technically Nintendo Wii users get everything XBox Live Gold provides only for free. I watch Netflix, browse the internet and play online (Brawl, Mario Cart, Rock Band) all for free.

[Rage]

Look my bad. I'm at work so i cant prof read or spell check. 

Nice job figuring that out Acey.

I wasn't calling them selfish jack wagons for not posting. I was saying its cause what i posted (tho hard to read.) was stating the reason why or supposed to spark conversation. which would state the reason why people are being charged for different services. I viewed it as  everyone who read it passing it up it was like giving a middle finger. I dont care cause i just want free stuff.

Maybe i should have posted the whole thing instead of temping people to post and then answer instead of getting angry because no one replied.

This stuff hits home cause companies find ways to cut cost and one of them is to hire contracted people. this just one of the many reasons. but yeah with that said dlc and online charges are what helps developers maintain a staff. Yeah i even at times hate the charges but i know the reasons and the reasons are good not negative so i can live with that.

its the rotten eggs that  ruins the bunch logic i guess. Cause companies like Capcom are known for raping the consumers.

I need to take a breath. 

Edit: Sorry fixed my grammar

[deadmangunner]

I agree there is nothing wrong with charging for dlc as long as the prices are within reason. Now though there is one kinda of dlc that kinda bugs me and that is when a game give you a cliffhanger ending and then to get the rest of the story you have buy dlc. I think downloading full games of downloading extra stuff for a game is fine but, when I buy a game I like it to be a full game and not have to continue the story buy our dlc. Any ways charging for dlc or online services is not bad but, in fact is a good because like you said it goes straight to the developers instead of trickling down from the company that owns the console that they made the game for. Also paying for dlc helps out indy game developers who other wise would have a very hard time marketing there game because they can get there game out there for the cheap and allow them to make money without having to make a really pricey game by being able to sell their game on xbox live or on iphones and ipads. Sorry if I seemed like I was rambling at the end I just trying to say that all that relates.

[SanjiSasuke]

I dislike when a company releases a game and intentionally removes what could have been made anyway to charge for it.
But with games like LBP where there is massive extra content that can only be given as DLC is makes sense, and lets you have it your own way.

As for charging for online: not at all.
Xbox is the only one that charges for Netflix, online play, etc. and the customers seem to just smile and hand it over.

[ELECTRO]

The only reason you have any games at all to play is because of profit for the game companies. It's not wrong it's totally right. If they didn't make millions then we wouldn't see the industry progress at the pace it is. Your not forced to purchase anything extra for your game. Being an old school gamer starting with the first NES. In those days if you bought a game & it had horrible glitches or a crap ending then it was just tough luck. In this day & age kids are used to there game being patched to fix these things or DLC to enhance a game you love. That is what your paying for. Plus companies are not always going to release a hit so they need to make of money to have some slack. If there new game doesn't sell then they don't have to close down shop because of one failure. For my experience with online gaming with both Sony & Microsoft the 360 is better. of the time when trying to play shooters on PS3 the servers will be down or I get some wierd errors but every time I log into the 360 I can jump right into game, everyone has a microphone & I never get errors. So I tend to buy all my games that I want to play online for the 360 so I don't have to put up with that crap & will gladly pay the fee for 360 since they have quality support. I feel this is why Sony got hacked so badly because they don't have any money for a qaulity support staff.

[SanjiSasuke]

I've had the opposite. I can never manage to get a decent game with any Xbox game, and the only PS game that I've ever had connection problems with was MAG.

As for hacking the Xbox has been full hacked for years, while the PS3 console was momentarily hacked and that has been almost crippled by new updates.

I actually thought Xbox Gold was pretty bad when I used it. I imagine when it first came out it was cool, but I thought it was too hard to use, and didn't actually offer that much.

[ELECTRO]

Seems experiences have varied then - It sucks that my PS network experience has been so bad - I'm no fanboy of any one system & just like gaming in general no matter what platform - Games are all that count in the end.

[Jelux Da Casual]

The only reason you have any games at all to play is because of profit for the game companies. It's not wrong it's totally right. If they didn't make millions then we wouldn't see the industry progress at the pace it is. Your not forced to purchase anything extra for your game. Being an old school gamer starting with the first NES. In those days if you bought a game & it had horrible glitches or a crap ending then it was just tough luck. In this day & age kids are used to there game being patched to fix these things or DLC to enhance a game you love. That is what your paying for. Plus companies are not always going to release a hit so they need to make of money to have some slack. If there new game doesn't sell then they don't have to close down shop because of one failure. For my experience with online gaming with both Sony & Microsoft the 360 is better. of the time when trying to play shooters on PS3 the servers will be down or I get some wierd errors but every time I log into the 360 I can jump right into game, everyone has a microphone & I never get errors. So I tend to buy all my games that I want to play online for the 360 so I don't have to put up with that crap & will gladly pay the fee for 360 since they have quality support. I feel this is why Sony got hacked so badly because they don't have any money for a quality support staff.

This, ALL OF THIS!!

Dang skippy people, read this and learn!! All of my support to this!

[Kriven]

It's not the fact that they charge for DLC that makes anybody upset, it's the fact that they use DLC as an excuse to half-butt the actual game.

When I buy DLC, it should be an extra piece of pie. Not the rest of my pie, but an extra piece. A pie + pie. The game is a pie. When I buy the game, I want a whole damn pie, not a pie and a sign saying "pay six bucks for another half a slice."

[vyn]

Everyone here seems to be sure money from DLC goes straight to developers, anyone got a source for that?? Cause it doesnt sound like something sony, EA, ubisoft, capcom or microsoft would allow in such good heart as you guys make it sound.

As with anything DLC can be done right and wrong. RDR, Borderlands and GTAIV are some examples that come to mind where DLC is worth it, its extra, and it feels like we get our moneys worth.

Sonic 4, Mass effect 2, Dead Space 2, and some other EA distributed games come to mind as plain greed where something is deliberately taken out of the game to be sold separately later on. Sometimes its not even taken out, its just waiting to be unlocked.

There is a small new trend as well where you can buy cheats, for example in WKC you can pay to get more experience for 30 days o_O.

[ELECTRO]

It's not the fact that they charge for DLC that makes anybody upset, it's the fact that they use DLC as an excuse to half-butt the actual game.

When I buy DLC, it should be an extra piece of pie. Not the rest of my pie, but an extra piece. A pie + pie. The game is a pie. When I buy the game, I want a whole damn pie, not a pie and a sign saying "pay six bucks for another half a slice."

I understand your complaint but you can't be sure what happens in the company of why they chose to do it this way - No game maker wants to put out a game that is missing crucial aspects of a game - The game designers, programers, artist & audio makers want to put out the best game they can seeing how there name & reputation is on the line - There taking a risk of releasing a game like that because word of mouth on the net could sink them - So desicions like this are made because not every game runs smooth as silk from start to finish - Some games end up needing to be retooled to work better so it can suceed & if it needs to be retooled then it can run over buget & past it's release date sending the company into the red on a project - They might be forced to release content this way to make ends meet - Would you rather pay the 8 bucks for DLC for the rest of the game or would you rather them just chop it off & release it how it is on there release date? If they never told you about the missing aspects of the game in DLC then you would never know the game was missing stuff anyway. Plus I havn't seen many games that do this - The only one I can think of that I played was Fallout 3 where it was missing the level cap & ending which was released as DLC - Now I look at there new game Skyrim & think all that extra money went into making that beast of a game so i'm glad I invested in the company

[Kriven]

I'd rather they released a free patch to give me a full game, because they were apparently insufficient in producing a finished product.

[Rage]

Wow there are some interesting statements being made.

It's not the fact that they charge for DLC that makes anybody upset, it's the fact that they use DLC as an excuse to half-butt the actual game.

When I buy DLC, it should be an extra piece of pie. Not the rest of my pie, but an extra piece. A pie + pie. The game is a pie. When I buy the game, I want a whole damn pie, not a pie and a sign saying "pay six bucks for another half a slice."

I'd rather they released a free patch to give me a full game, because they were apparently insufficient in producing a finished product.

DLC is good in those case. Another poster said if it wasnt for DLC youd have broken games like there was in the nes era. Sure there maybe a few bad guys who do what you said but for the most part people put there heart and soul into creating these games. The thing is they have dead lines. They can only delay a game for so long. If you look back at so many games where rushed by publisher or the owners of the console that turned out bad. In these case its great to have DLC. Its adds the missing components.

A great example of this was Super Smash Bros Brawl. Its was delayed at least two times if not more. They where being rushed by Nintendo. If they had DLC then imagine what could have been.

Also the consumer plays a role is the too. If consumers demand it now and are tired of waiting then a unpolished product may be released. reason is at a certain point people will start to lose interest.

With publishers, Consoles owners(Parent Companies) , and consumers all demanding something what are you to do?  Release a beta or demo?   In today's market a Beta wont cut it. Demo only reach a small part of the audience so that's not always the way to go. To put out a game and add stuff to it that's polished and not rush?..... Yeah that sound much better. The game was good enough to make you consider buying the DLC or else you'd wouldnt be complaining. If it was a bad game you'd say its not even worth paying for the dlc and wouldn't care cause it was and horrible experience.

See what i got here? that's bad logic. You think people would be happy to paid for a good product.

[Jelux Da Casual]

Sonic 4, Mass effect 2, Dead Space 2, and some other EA distributed games come to mind as plain greed where something is deliberately taken out of the game to be sold separately later on. Sometimes its not even taken out, its just waiting to be unlocked.

Episodic gaming (Sonic 4) is a different case. Episodic gaming allows a company to not exhaust resources for high-risk titles. Sonic unfortunately is a high risk since he's had so many bad games recently. With episodic gaming, companies can see if the title will sell and therefore put more money into the title for further development or cut their losses without high repercussion. If a title does well, episodic gaming can also function to see what was done well and what was done poorly and make needed changes for the next episode release (Sonic 4's physics for example).

Mass Effect's Cerberus Network and other EA related material is another tactic entirely. It's only paid DLC if you buy the game used, which of course is probably the main method to combat the prevalence of used game sales, since developers don't make money from that.

Then of course, Used game retailers combat that tactic by offering "Reserve DLC" like the Baseball bat in L4D2, or the Golden Chainsaw gun in Gears. That way, even if the Reservation is cancelled, they get their 5-or-so dollars.

[Kriven]

@Rage: Thank you for disregarding the entire concept of free patches to repair and polish an unfinished game. Really and truly, I thank you.

Paying for additional content is fine, so long as the game natively comes with enough native content to warrent being a good game on its own.

Paying for update patches and scrubbing is not fine. That crap should either be free, or ironed out before release.

[vyn]

Episodic gaming (Sonic 4) is a different case. Episodic gaming allows a company to not exhaust resources for high-risk titles. Sonic unfortunately is a high risk since he's had so many bad games recently. With episodic gaming, companies can see if the title will sell and therefore put more money into the title for further development or cut their losses without high repercussion. If a title does well, episodic gaming can also function to see what was done well and what was done poorly and make needed changes for the next episode release (Sonic 4's physics for example).

Mass Effect's Cerberus Network and other EA related material is another tactic entirely. It's only paid DLC if you buy the game used, which of course is probably the main method to combat the prevalence of used game sales, since developers don't make money from that.

Then of course, Used game retailers combat that tactic by offering "Reserve DLC" like the Baseball bat in L4D2, or the Golden Chainsaw gun in Gears. That way, even if the Reservation is cancelled, they get their 5-or-so dollars.

im not talking about the new-only stuff. There were three major dlc released for me2, Barely an hour of game for each and priced at 15 dollars each. Then the extra guns, suits, etc. All that stuff is obviously included in the disc becuase the dlc is only a few KBs but locked away. In both ME2 and DS2 the gear offered online is also superior to the one in-game to make it even more attractive. First ones are heavily overpriced but merchandised as extremely important when they are clearly not, second ones are things taken away from the game to make extra money. I guess episodic is fine though.

But since we are already on different tactics, i am not a fan of Pre-Order only stuff. It was fine when it was just a different skin, texture, whatever but its getting out of hand now some games lack features, characters, abilities, you name it. It doesnt feel like you get an extra if you pre-order, it feels like you get less if you dont pre-order. Companies are looking for blind sales and that irks me.

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

Crom Lando33 says:

Well a topic i can really dig into.  I myself Love DLC. why? i look at it from various standpoints of goodness than take first hand the personal bad thoughts..."Greedy"... being the word of choice.  While some of us may not like dlc and think we should have the patches for free, there is a thought no one might have mentioned.. new ideas mean new works for old/new games. the patches actually give you virtually more ( in some cases) bang for your first buck when you bought the game. yes one could say oh its to rake in more money. OOOK and thats a bad thing? These companies are in business to make money not give away stuff all the time. sure there are of free dlc i have found and some of them are actually really cool add ons. others are just creative ways to get an extra penny. . But in the end its the consumer who is wether willing to go with the flow to get what they want or the others who just protest it and dont get what others are going to enjoy. Remeber.. these game companies are businesses and making money..however they can.. to keep making games and to support not just the consumers fantasies but the people that work hard for them to create a game that fans old and new might enjoy.

 as for which systems has the better services...well each plays into its targeted audience. like lets take the wii and xbox 360 for example... wii provides some or of the same netflix services and such for free as where 360 you have to pay for memberships for the services. well the wii distributes its stuff for free to make up for a nice gap in its fan base. especially in family homes. Most people i know own a wii is well kids who cant get those accounts cause they arent allowed.  so it limits what they can do on it. well a cool way to reel in the parents and adults is ...free stuff that grown folks actual will use the wii for other than gaming.

Now the 360 on the other hand target audiance is 20 to 40 year olds.  They have a huge fan base of hardcore gamers so they arent losing any ground , plus kids even have 360's but the 360 in all respects is more than a game console. its an entertainment unit on par with ps3 in what it delivers in home entertainment features. they have devote followers who have no qualms about shelling out some cool cash and points for more for their system.

Again.. for me The dlc and paid services are a good thing and i am so far enjoying the ones i am signed up with on the 360. I can see the services becoming even more techy and giving us even more stuff down the line. free and paid.

[Enso]

I'm sorry to be off-topic, but I don't have a PSN card to buy online like I quit game from Blazblue to download like some of them. I want to buy 'em  but I don't know. How can I get a PSN card?

[ELECTRO]

I'm sorry to be off-topic, but I don't have a PSN card to buy online like I quit game from Blazblue to download like some of them. I want to buy 'em  but I don't know. How can I get a PSN card?

Ever heard of a place called Wal-Mart?

Now back to the discussion. I was looking around the interweb tonight for rants on the DLC situation to get a feel of what the ranters out there where saying. I've come to the conclusion that most of the ranters out there where rather young & that they have grown up in an age where they can pirate everything for free. If they want new movies, music, comics, games they will just go pirate it like they have a bazillon dollars. I'll dub them the gimmie, gimmie generation. They seem to have no respect or idea of what it takes to produce some of these things that there enjoying. So forget about them thinking of the actual buisness side of the equation. If it's not immediatly free, quick & perfect they scream GREED. Like theres some Uncle Scrooge out there swimming in a pile of gold coins laughing at them. Some of this theft will undoubtably play into certain companies losing money & they might be forced to make ends meet by hitting paying consumers where they can like DLC.

Edit : Just to make it clear I am not talking about anyone on this forum - I have enjoyed everyones point of view so far on the subject.

[Jelux Da Casual]

Quick clarification on the Netflix issue. Netflix is NOT free. You have to pay Netflix for your subscription to their streaming and/or disc-by-mail service. You can however tether that same account to any apparatus that is Netflix capable like a computer, iPhone, iPad, Netflix-ready TV's, and game platforms, including the 3DS soon.
 
You can tether said account to your Wii for free, since Wii doesn't not have a paid online experience. You can tether it to you PSN account for free since PSN doesn't not have a standard paid online experience. From what I understand about the 360, you can tether it to a Gold account, but not a Silver. This is where your argument would lie, since the only difference from Silver to Gold was supposed to be online play, though I suppose since Netflix is delivered through the Xbox network it somehow falls under that category. But nonetheless, Netflix is not a free service for game console members.

[Rage]

Ever heard of a place called Wal-Mart?

Now back to the discussion. I was looking around the interweb tonight for rants on the DLC situation to get a feel of what the ranters out there where saying. I've come to the conclusion that most of the ranters out there where rather young & that they have grown up in an age where they can pirate everything for free. If they want new movies, music, comics, games they will just go pirate it like they have a bazillon dollars. I'll dub them the gimmie, gimmie generation. They seem to have no respect or idea of what it takes to produce some of these things that there enjoying. So forget about them thinking of the actual buisness side of the equation. If it's not immediatly free, quick & perfect they scream GREED. Like theres some Uncle Scrooge out there swimming in a pile of gold coins laughing at them. Some of this theft will undoubtably play into certain companies losing money & they might be forced to make ends meet by hitting paying consumers where they can like DLC.

Edit : Just to make it clear I am not talking about anyone on this forum - I have enjoyed everyones point of view so far on the subject.

@Rage: Thank you for disregarding the entire concept of free patches to repair and polish an unfinished game. Really and truly, I thank you.

Paying for additional content is fine, so long as the game natively comes with enough native content to warrent being a good game on its own.

Paying for update patches and scrubbing is not fine. That crap should either be free, or ironed out before release.

Look I didn't disregard anything i just don't agree. Mugen creators can relate to this one. You want patches and other minor fixes free right? Well there is work involved in making those fixes and patches. You ever debugged a character? What about a whole game? Also there is no  way to iron out all the bugs. The reason being is you cant account for how people will take to the product. When people start to playing in new ways that was no intended there's bound to be something amiss. Creators only play in the way they intended. They may try and break the product. They will think out side the box and tackle the game from many different angles. This is the debug process.  need i elaborate?

In many case they say what ever and fix it as to not spoil the gaming experience. Still tho these people need to be paid. When they do that the cost is on them. from my gaming experience its been more or less understandable the stuff they do charge for. if they gave everything (or simply patch, etc.) for free it would in time cripple the company.

You know another way companies deal with this? They out source product to get it made good and cheap. They bring it back and can afford lose money on free patches and other stuff. Also they just contract people so they can avoid the cost of having a staff member. Both of these can benefit the consumer but they hurt the people who reside here. It puts people out of work it also places them on a budget. When your a contract for hire (free lance) you don't now where your next job is, where your next meal my be. The starving artist. This is a industry built on art. Artist throughout time have suffered those reasons and more. People but don't understand. The saying you never understand till you walk a mile is my shoes is best used here.