DLC and other paid services

[ExeLord]

So you started this topic solely on purpose to get paid for your work on Axl?

If you ask me - I like all DLC wich adds content, like costumes/weapons/characters/etc. I dislike DLC when I have that content right on my disk and it just unlocks what's already there, for me it looks unfair, I prefer to beat game with all characters/play all story routes/etc. to get hidden content rether then buy it. If I get something new by buying DLC I eagerly buy it and enjoy, no problem, it's fair.
---
Patches SHOULD be free, like if game freezes/glitches appears/you loose your progress, etc. Why should I pay for game just to WORK PROPERLY? They don't bring anything extra, they don't unlock anything, they just fixing errors. It's normal reaction to be angry when you play game and something went wrong, like bullet went through indestructible wall and killed you or when you trying to save game corrupts your save file or else. And if you see that you should PAY to fix unworking stuff you probably become a raging beast.
They are not writing anywhere on box that game might be broken, you may come over issues in some places, you won't be able to play through some stages, etc. When you buy a game you want it to work why pay to make it work fine, without issues?

[Rage]

The point i was making its a lot of work. We do mugen as a hobby. Thats what it is. Its not something to make extra money. What im saying is the work they do is simular or related to what we do. Knowing that one would think and maybe understand why they want to be paid for the work they put into creating DLC extra content, etc.

Now DLC that unlocks everything that could be obtain in the game. Well obiously this isnt made for you. You put in the time to unlock everything. You have to remember not everyone doesnt have the time to put in to get these items. This is who that type of DLC targets.  Casual gamers. Disgeae 3 is a peferct example of this. Its take forever to unlock and obtain everything. Some peole would rather just buy it then put in 100+ hours.

sorry if my grammar is off im at work and dont have time the check my text.

[Acey]

I think you guys are getting a little silly here. What game charge$ for funtionality patches? As far as I can tell every game I own that offers patches offers them for free.

[Chaos Dante]

it kinda seems like a lot people in this topic are pretty well off with money to be willing to spend so much . Games are too d*** expensive for any less than completeness to be expected from the finished copies. yeah games back in the day didn't have the luxury of patches and fixes so what it's a different day there should be less as developers should be learning from their mistakes.

For me I like DLC when as one poster said adds an extra slice to an already finished pie. Extra powerful armor, weapons, fun sidemissions etc. However whether y'all are willing to admit to it there are petty DLC that is out there to rake in money, under no circumstances should we have to pay extra for a $60 game to get stuff that should already be in the game. My example of this is Fable III, in the game u can dye ur clothes different colors, however white wasn't one of the included dyes 4 whatever reason, later it was released as DLC granted it was cheap but still to make you pay for something so basic that they knew gamers would want to use is a break of principal.

As for online services I hear people say all the time that XBL is a better online experience(most of these people don't own a PS3). I have both, I feel no difference, there are some edgy stuff on XBL but not enough to warrant charging you, and they just went up on the price. Why pay to use on XBL for what u can do on a PS3/Wii for free doesn't make any sense to me. XBL even charges for lame themes, PSN has recently started doing this but still have many worth while themes available for free that are more visually noticble than the 360. I really feel that avatar clothing should cost less than typical DLC.

Lastly Videogames to me are an art form, quality and care just like any other should come first before profit. That's what's wrong with music,movies, TV today. Everything has become so commercialized and money hungry that the art/quality get overlooked. Stop making excuses for sorry developers half a*** games. There are developers who release quality games back to back and don't rely on these cheap tactics so others shouldn't either. We as the consumers do deserve better.

[C.R.O.M. - Shadaloo Lives!]

Ever heard of a place called Wal-Mart?

Actually, I've had this conversation with him. He lives in Pohnpei, Micronesia, no Wal-Mart.

[Rage]

I agree with you acey. I think only patch i ever seen a price for was on the pc and dont quote me on that.

people want something for nothing is an age old argument.   

My view is they should be paid for what ever work they do unless its was and is a ploy to rip off consumers.

Anyhow i really enjoy everyones comments. everyone more or less brought up so valid points and openned my eyes to somethings i was being more narrow minded about. Thank you for enlighting me.

Sorry if my grammar is off im at work and dont have time to check.

[Kriven]

@Rage: Quoting me without addressing my whole argument is disregarding it. You did that.

Second, I am a "starving artist" so don't even give me that line. Also, this discussion is far more about the money making business aspect, which has nothing to do with artistry and everything to do with being the wrong kind of entrepeneur.

An incomplete game is not a game. If I purchase an incomplete product, it had better be fixed for free unless some kind of label appears on the case that makes it clear that the game is incomplete and that I will have to pay for the whole thing. Games like this are effectively demos, not worth sixty dollars.

By "locking content on the disc" the poster wasn't talking about items you could unlock by progressing through the game. He meant items that had actually been stashed away deep within the game's code, and hidden solely so that the company could charge "DLC" to unlock those items on the disc. When they were already there, but just hidden on a shelf that the player, that any player, is not capable of reaching.

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

hilarious! i am enjoying this conversation/debate. . someone said it best. People want something for free in this day and age. I can understand a bit about content thats already on disk thats locked and your charged a fee to unlock that already installed feature. but again.. they are a business and if you dont like that side of the business than dont buy into the products.  but the thing is , we want the games. yeah back in the day they didnt have all that, you get a full game and thats it. But this aint 1989, its 2011. Companies need to find a way to make money to stay in business to keep their employees working and not jobless and give us consumers new content wether we may think its already on the disk or its newly made. ok and why not fatten their pockets while their at it. I would and so would any entreprenuer . Its what they do and how we get the things we get.

And for the record , i myself had a PS3, i liked it but only for the exclusive games. that was about it. But i am planning on getting a new one again because my friends here have them and i wanna play against them in games as well as conversate.

I think DLC and Paid services on the home consoles are a very good and really cool feature that we are getting these days. I am an old schooler and i wish we had stuff like this back when i was younger.

Oh and my homie Gangsta Luxury ( G Lux )    that talk we had really got me steppin up more my 360 experience too,. thanx bro

[ELECTRO]

Actually, I've had this conversation with him. He lives in Pohnpei, Micronesia, no Wal-Mart.

He obviously has the internet & access to wal-mart online or a million other online stores.

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

He obviously has the internet & access to wal-mart online or a million other online stores.

needs credit card.
......wait a sec.. where does he  buy his ps3 games ? cause i am sure whatever game store he goes to might even sell them there. check into that.

[Yun0]

ok just a few words...
fair: MK9 Kenshin (just an example) he is being made right now and it's an extra of the game
unfair: MVC# Shuma-Gorath he was already on the disc and we bought just a code to unlock him...

but, dah, i mean i want to play as shuma so i bought it and no regreat...
conclusion i you think dlc is unfair... don't buy it... case closed

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

conclusion i you think dlc is unfair... don't buy it... case closed

  i second that!

[Rage]

@Kriven

its a lot so its in the spoiler

(click to show/hide)

@Rage: Quoting me without addressing my whole argument is disregarding it. You did that.

Sorry i usually only comment on what i feel the need to. Sorry if it offended you. I  try an address everything.

Second, I am a "starving artist" so don't even give me that line.

I aint looking for no ones sympathy here. I just stating what some actions companies take to deal with certain issues. Your an artist. What your line of work? cause it would seem you dont work in the same field as me. But is you do and you feel the way the game industry cuts coat by hiring temps or out sourcing is cool. More power to you

Also, this discussion is far more about the money making business aspect, which has nothing to do with artistry and everything to do with being the wrong kind of entrepreneur.
 

Sorry for mentioning art in a discussion about companies that create art. Tho i know its business ethics we're discussing its involves art.

An incomplete game is not a game. If I purchase an incomplete product, it had better be fixed for free unless some kind of label appears on the case that makes it clear that the game is incomplete and that I will have to pay for the whole thing. Games like this are effectively demos, not worth sixty dollars.

I only heard of one game that had you download an ending.  Other wise its extra chapters, like a pregame, after game, or even events that happened between or doing others. characters, levels, items, skins, etc are just the other common type of dlc. Whats wrong with charging for those? a game thats 40 hours with no ending or they " DLC the ending" is just a demo? thats a long demo. I would say yeah its an incomplete project. so i agreed with you on one level.

By "locking content on the disc" the poster wasn't talking about items you could unlock by progressing through the game. He meant items that had actually been stashed away deep within the game's code, and hidden solely so that the company could charge "DLC" to unlock those items on the disc. When they were already there, but just hidden on a shelf that the player, that any player, is not capable of reaching.

With the MVC3 i don't know anything about Squid dude but with jill her data wasn't complete. they had not finish her. Content hidden on disk is too broad a topic to talk about. there are thousands of reason companies do this. Incomplete data, stuff laid down so future dlc easier to install. (a  expansion pack.)' stuff removed  (which sometimes it is decided to reapply it. usually the traces of the code is left behind or is left as a whole). i can go on.

But i have heard of content in the final stages being locked away to enable it for dlc.  Its thier choice, there nothing wrong with that. you don't like it don't buy. They don't let you play with the rigs and textures. Why not let the consumer play with the code they the game is build on? Its lock on the disk.

@everyone

see what needs to be addressed here is those companies that are crooked  and abuse this service. But its the world we live. it happens everywhere with everything. and consumers and good companies pay the price.

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

Ok i like the popular game but i dont want to buy the DLC ->i get half of a product i like and i have paid the fair price for already. By the "dont like dont buy" logic im wrong for not buying something i like??, Is it my fault i get half the product because i dont want to pay more?, is it not my right to complain then?.

well my bro , its anyones right to complain but doesnt mean that cause we complain that we are totally in the right . One must look deeper into the matter than just the surface and yeah we definetly should not be doing conspiracy theories . . could go on forever with those man.

yea we all are entitled to having a full game expecially we pay full price.. but .. if you want the extra goodies aside from the game wdether locked in the game , seperate disk or dlc, we have to pay for it. thats just the bottom line. we as consumers cant have everything we want at the companies expense then there surely wouldnt never been a need for dlc. but then think of those who wish there was more or additional content adxded to a game, those folks would i belive enjoy havin those features given to them wether free or paid.

I surely wouldnt give my crew hard earned extra work away for free and i still have to pay these guys and gals for the work! oh hecks naw. we all gonna get paid! . but its also good to hook up your fans and consumers here and there with something for free. its always been done since dlc came about but the thing is people want it for which ever game they want it for and that kinda dont fly. yeah a popular game is gonna warrent more payroll in dlc.

if eveything was given to us for free then where would that leave the companies who make us these games we like to play? barely making it  on those games to continue making games.  So there is a need to get more to provide more. One thing i never believed in all my life since working and thats , the customer is always right. No they are not. but you have to know how to spin them well enuff to where they are satisfied and so are you.  

[vyn]

im not asking DLC to be free all the time at all, ive bought plenty myself, im saying it is taken to an abusive point more and more and players support and justify this abusive behavior.

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

i can feel you on that as well vyn bro. i hate some of the stupid dlc stuff but i have that option if i wanna shell out 480 points for a pic theme.  . i just wait till there is stuff worthy of my money then i buy.

[Chaos Dante]

@Vyn I agree. Many of you talk about the business of it all but business of it with money, but that goes both ways the consumer has to feel like their investment is a sound one and shouldn't be ripped off. You should always feel you got your money's worth with anything you buy.

If the developers feel a game isn't ready, then yeah they should push the release date back, people should learn some patience anyway. With all that goes into a game developers owe it to themselves and us to make a complete experience they can stand behind.

I strongly feel that any DLC no matter what should only serve to enhance an already complete gaming experience, there are some great games that I've played that I would have loved to have gotten DLC for.

btw Street Fighter IV is a perfect example of ripoff, I'm sure they knew when they released the game they'd just be release an updated version that made the old one all but obsolete within a year.

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

i think a sound investment is anything i deem i like that i paid for.  where someone else might feel ripped off cause they dont like a certain new character added where i may like that character and felt the dl was worth my investment. its a consumer choice. its also a game companies resposibility but  the age old saying.. you cant please everyone. 

i stand by both good product and practices.  but when it comes to both depends on one hand the consumer .. did they like it, did they think they got what they paid for.. would they dl again from the company /game. these are factors some  game companies do take a look at while others just shell out stuff just to have cause either fans think it would be cool to have or they think its cool to have.  ok or just toss in stuff to make some quickie cash a fan of certain things will buy. .

when i bought mvc3 i thought it was cool , i bought jill and shuma. i dont have any issues about it really. i play with both and i do like both a lil.  so my money to me was worth it. If someone says " oh you got suckered like the rest of us cause it was already on the disk " i say... and? so if mvc2 had back then dlc and you could get an extra 12 characters , doesnt matter wether on the disk already or not but had all the characters you wanted you would feel suckered for paying for what you wanted? i would only feel that way if all 12 were corny, worthless and total fail. I like FUN, and if something is gonna give me more fun then i dont have a issue. plus i am also supporting for more stuff to get on it. so i know they gonna bleed ssf4 dry. . and as they should cause its good. gimmie Karin, rolento and such , i will pay for them.. but make sure they are Fun to play as .

I think the value of getting something for nothing depends upon the value of wether you think it was worth it if you payed for it. Yun and Yang to me were worth the points. If i got them for free i would be just as happy. If anyone wants to protest what they think is corrupt behavoir on the companies part for doing certain things then all you have to do is a few things like , 1. dont buy their product, 2. write to them and 3. tell everyone you know about how you think these dlc tactics of some are so insane it begs protest at their front gate. Take em to court. but be prepared to lose ..why cause in the end.. it is your choice to dl the content or not. 

[Kriven]

It's apparent that there's two factions here, and neither will budge. One faction believes that DLC should only be charged if it is content that is not included on the disc, and is not required to 100% the game. The other faction seems to think that we should all just lie down and let the corporations charge whatever the hell they want and "not buy" if we don't want to pay extra.

So okay. Now that that's established, we're not going to get anywhere else.

Oh also: I do support outsourcing work, because even if you personally don't get a job, someone else in the world does. Outsourcing is a political debate, not an artists debate.

[NinjaElephant277]

@Rage

Your an artist. What your line of work?

ROFL *YOU'RE AS IN "GEE YOU'RE BAD AT GRAMMAR"

 You're first post and that's what you decide to say huh?

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

  hey heyn hey now , i am not for laying down and letting companies charge whatever they want.  then again... i am sitting down. . nahh seriously tho.  if anyone here has paid for a console, tv, milk from the local market and even got gas ( with its outrageous prices in some areas) then pretty much we all have done that. like i said tho bro's , there are ways to make your voices heard if you are that much angered by it . but this is just a simple disscussion/debate.
i wouldnt even say tho there are full swing sides because at any moment those same thoughts that agree or disagree can flip depending on the situation .

i favor DLC and the paid services, its their products, i dont have to buy into it and i cannot really make them do what i want them too. they can charge what they want especially if its not even a neccessity but a product that one either chooses to buy or the companies go ahead and  lose money or reinvent a better price structure to meet consumer demands and availability. Its the way of the world.  but most definetly if they got something good for free.. gimiie gimmie GIMMIE!

[deadmangunner]

I agree with you C.R.O.M - Lando33. If you want buy something then buy it and if you don't then don't. The DLC and paid online service have been around for a while now and I think is a good way for companies to make money. I also think that yeah it you are right if you think the company is doing something abusive to you and other consumers then let them know and make an effort to try and get it corrected. Also I will support the idea of getting a full game experience for your money but, what I mean by this that you get some type of conclusive ending to the game even if it leaves some stuff undone for the sequel of DLC. As long as I feel that the story of the game is complete I am fine with and like I said if they are doing a sequel or the rest in DLC that is fine as long as the game that you just played story feels like it had a good ending to that part of the story. Though just make it clear I am not really on either side I feel I am in the middle because I can see both sides have some good points and as it has been since the beginning people agree with somethings from both sides and disagree with others. Either way the game companies will keep doing things the way they feel like and we will still get good and bad games and we will continue to go on about we like and do not like about them till the end of our days. I will end by saying I just plan to look forward to the games that I am waiting in anticipation for and i think the gaming future still looks great even with its problems.

[SanjiSasuke]

@Rage
ROFL *YOU'RE AS IN "GEE YOU'RE BAD AT GRAMMAR"

*golf voice*
And the master troll at work finishes his deed with skill and precision.
*sarcastic clap*

[Rage]

@Rage
ROFL *YOU'RE AS IN "GEE YOU'RE BAD AT GRAMMAR"

Wow you joined the forum to be an @$$. 

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

Wow you joined the forum to be an @$$. *insert middle finger smiley here*

OMG bro! i actually had made one of those from the Megaman peace smiley we have here. LMAO , this woulda been a great time for it for ya to use on that note. . but i cant find the dang thing now. it was ...awesome and .. satisfying to edit it.

good thread too Rage. these are some very good conversations going on.