Mugen 1.0 Rogue

[SanjiSasuke]

Yup, just hit it with 2 buttons instead of one.

[Megabyte]

Quick question...is her folder supposed to be missing the .act files? Cause when I extract her files, there are only 17 total in the folder and no .act files at all. I tried redownloading and the same results. Is this normal?

[SanjiSasuke]

Hey, you're right...but it works. How does that work?

[Jelux Da Casual]

Quick question...is her folder supposed to be missing the .act files? Cause when I extract her files, there are only 17 total in the folder and no .act files at all. I tried redownloading and the same results. Is this normal?

I quote myself:

Till fighter factory 3 comes out, you won't be able to change because of the complex coding manuver Acey had to pull for all the powers set and changes that occur, like Rogue's skin changing color or sprouting Nightcrawler's tail.

Do you have a list of which authors the specials will stea; from?  there is at least 5 different wolverines out there

Thanks for this awesome release!

Check OP.

[Acey]

The act files are built into the SFFv2 file, thanks GLux for answering all the above questions.

[Megabyte]

The act files are built into the SFFv2 file, thanks GLux for answering all the above questions.

Ahhhhh ok...just asked cause I checked the .def and it listed where the .act files should be and I just questioned it as I didn't see them anywhere. Thanks for clearing that up!

[SanjiSasuke]

I went on a dangerous fact finding mission to the deep jungles of The Guild and a few ticked off frogs later I got some feedback:

Alpa San:

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- Her large portrait is not isolated from its background and just looks bad on a fighting game select screen.

- Her into is really badly animated. I could barely tell she's tapping the ground with her foot for whatever reason. Then there's that one frame cape throw...

- Her stance isn't good either. What works for people like Thouther really, really does not work for Rogue at all.

- Her damage output is atrociously high. I can take nearly half of an average character's health with an air combo that I do by mashing buttons.

- As a result of being based off a certain someone's version, her gameplay is very sloppy and button mash accessible. An 11 year old can hold his/her own against a character AI patched by a Nico Nico Douga viewer with this Rogue without even knowing what he/she is doing.

- And you thought her dive kick couldn't be more annoying than it was in the source game. Now try it with badly guessed velocities!

- The timings and velocities make me gag. Everything is clearly way too fast, too slow, lasts too long, or is a combination of badly guessed velocities and timings. I don't even use Rogue very much in the Marvel series and I can still see how offensively wrong her data is.

- Doesn't feel anything like a Marvel vs Capcom character, or even a decent character for that matter. It feels like a freaking mess. I don't care how creative Acey wants to be, he should at least have the decency to look at actual game data so his characters won't feel so gosh darn sloppy!

- The stolen powers were not done well at all. I refuse to accept that Acey ever used Iceman in the Capcom marvel games to even think that his Ice Beam is like that. Or how about The Amazing Spammable Spider-Man web balls? I don't even want to talk about the stolen supers. The animations, the hitdef data, the way they are coded, and just about everything about her stolen powers screams sloppy rushjob.

Cyanide (I think this one is a bit more useful):

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Few things

Vs jumps actually have an X friction, they start at one velocity and decrease.
They also have quite high gravity and do not float as much as this (that's without holding up)
Super jumps. You can never start at full forwards velocity except from a launcher, you must always accelerate to that value (and it's 4) and once you release you will begin slowing down until you reach 2.
Backwards jumps except off a launcher must wait at least 8 ticks before you start moving backwards.
As we have clsn's available now, even if you don't plan to use them, looking would be good. Falling clsn boxes typically use a single box, that would basically be up to shoulder level. There is no real defining of the body structure at all. This has been done and it makes moves miss
She seems to have some sort of odd quick recovery after any air hit.

There are a few defined combo systems in Vs, unsure exactly which one is in use here.
Weak to strong. This means you can go up the keys but only along kicks or punches
Weak to any. You can go up the keys alternating between kicks and punches
Punch to kick. This can go backwards but you may only combo a kick from a punch (not common)
Kick to punch. Inverse of above, also not common.
ZigZag/Hunter Chain. You use all 6 keys in sequence, generally starting from LP.

What's in this is apparently weak to any on the ground, but in midair it changes to zigzag+punch to kick to punch. And you can chain LP's together rather a lot. So in midair i can do LP>MP>LK>MK. I could probably go lp>mp>lk>mp>lk again, or something if i wanted to try really hard. I believe there's a juggle limit though.

Vs has no true "falls" a couple of moves will knock you down, but nothing that knocks you upwards will have you fall back to earth and get up from it. Especially not specials. Recovery should happen at pretty much the peak of everything. Unless you're slammed into the ground, you recover.

I don't really understand the stance as it doesn't match her recovery from other stuff. Kinda noticeable from the jump land, there is a flick to pose there.

Even if you're not going to artmoney the vels, you can get SOMETHING correctish simply by doing the move a few times and counting how many it takes till you can't hit p2, then replicate that. LP is too little, MP is too little.

Not going into the power theft, that's all made up and totally not an issue. But if something is going to be a style using many of the basic system mechanics is important, especially the combo system. Vs contrary to popular belief has a defined combo system and it really isn't mash for combo but specific strings. Some moves will even miss off the light versions due to requiring too much startup. They can chain from them, but p2 can recover in the middle, that sort of thing, often missed.

 
I don't agree with all of it (especially some of Alpa's stuff) but some might be useful. Got a lot of and for it, but it might have been worthwhile. No need for a flame war, just some C+C.

[HyperVoiceActing]

Why do I have the feeling Alpa was kicked out of IMT a long time ago for troll purposes?

[Acey]

I just got back from the Guild, and another frame thread but a bunch of users who didn't even download the character. I agree Cyanide had useful comments, just not actually useful for Rogue while sometimes even stating the facts a little off.

My reply was a such

You know, I really appreciate SanjiSasuke saying exactly what he did. Flat out bashing, especially by some of the users who obviously didn't even download the character, is simply not helpful. Then there are the absolutely useless comments like "the portrait doesn't have the background cut out" or when someone actually has the balls to speak up trying to put them down by saying "Acey sends others to talk for him". I have a community to run so you can keep this as a flat appology across the board for not logging into MFG every day in the off chance that someone might decide to post up one of my characters here. Sanji probably wasted most of his time here saying exactly what I would have said about useless critisism but at least Cyanide took a second to give some actually useable feedback. That is a plus as far as I'm concerned.

@ Cyanide, I can learn a lot from your post. Information that I can continue to use in future character creations. I havn't seen the MvC2 hitbox charts you've mentioned so I'll need to check them out, I expect they'll be a lot like Marvel Super Heroes and MvC3. Overall, most sincerely, thanks for speaking up. I should mention though your comment about how Rogue is able to do combos inverse does not seem acurate to me. You can't go from MK to LP while standing, crouch or jumping. Neither can you go from MP to LK.

@ Those who need a little night time reading, A little bit about my work here, I'm not creating a MvC2 or MvC1 character, that's cool for those who do exactly that, and some did it very well (Splode, Mystic Blaze) but my take on mugen is that you need to be creating for the engine. All the moves and timing in rogue are matched with the character. I'm also one of those who has a problem with hitboxes as you'll find them on the VS series, litterally from CotA on through MvC3 but if you want an discourse on hit boxes theology that will be saved for another day. The ReadMe file points this out but Rogue uses the typical Magic Combo series as well as the typical L,M,H, with appropraite chainging into Supers and Hypers. As Cynaide points out you can chain go straight from LP up to a HP which is typical. There are no combo loops here so no need to assume there might be. In regards to the stance most everything matches up with the rest of the animations perfectly except for the one frame Cynaide mentioned, I'll be sure to tidy that up. Her 50 power sets are all spelled out in the ReadMe file as well, plans continue to make Rogue compatable with a wide variety of Mugen characters. All in all Rogue is one of the most complex mugen characters, not only because she can steal moves but also because she has a complete smart palette, a complex jacket helper according to the palette used and triggers to confirm !selfstate in order to handle the helper in a realistic maner while being thrown and such. Rogue also utilized SFFv2 to allow her to change skin color when stealing powers from those like Blanka, Colossus or Beast. One little perks thrown in include growing a tail when stealing from Nightcrawler. There are some cool custom animations such as the "Hyper Mega Man" stolen hyper and the "Ghost Rider bike" stolen hyper. All around she is a very solid character.

Combo Chain 1 = LP->LK->MP->MK->Hard attack (stand, crouch or air), you can skip ahead at any point going forward in this combo stream.
Combo Chain 2 = Light->Medium->Hard (stand, crouch or air), again, you can skip medium if you want.
Normals Chain into Specials. Specials into Hypers.
In general you can not chain normals into stolen attacks. Most stolen attacks can not be done in the air, excpetions include Hadouken, Mega Buster and Ice Blast.
Nothing is mashable except for LP or LK into itself, which are both precidented.

So for everyone out there who truely wants to play an amazing Rogue, wonderfuly programmed with great chaining, solid gameplay and full of tons of extras then this is a download you won't want to miss. Ignore the liars. I'm always listening. It's those who aren't afraid to speak up against the socail norm who change the world.

[SanjiSasuke]

Thanks Ace. Got a lot of stuff in there I couldn't quite explain on my own. Sorry if it turned into a bit of a war. Now I know how world conflicts start.

[HyperVoiceActing]

All that being said really makes me appreciate all the hard work you put into Rogue even more Ace.

In fact ... be right back *opens PSP and goes through files*

[Jelux Da Casual]

Awe damnit, you spelled social wrong. Your entire post is forfeit, your argument is invalid...

[Acey]

Thanks Ace. Got a lot of stuff in there I couldn't quite explain on my own. Sorry if it turned into a bit of a war. Now I know how world conflicts start.

I appreciate that you called them out for doing exctly what they were doing, which was bashing without useful feedback. I know it's not easy to step in there and speak your mind always with that crowd.

[JDubbs]

A cool thing would be a stolen move for SeanAlty's CM Punk

[Chimoru]

I'm a big fan of the "Unless you can do better, keep your negative, unhelpful comments to yourself" mentality.  I think I can speak for many of us when I say that Acey, like most of you here, is a very powerful asset to the MUGEN community.  If it WAS the case that Acey sends people to comment for him, which I'm sure it's not, it's because he's busy with his own life, AND making awesome characters FOR FREE for people to enjoy! Without you guys, MUGEN would not be the amazingly fun game it is today.  You guys seem to be the cutting edge for pushing and testing the limits of what this game can really do!  So I want to formally thank all of you here at Infinity as well as anyone else who has contributed.  I also want to give a quick 'thank you' to Gangsta Luxury for answering my previous questions so promptly!  I'm a member of many forums, but this is easily one of my favorites because I feel most people here want the same thing: a game we can all share and enjoy.

Thanks again, and everyone keep up the good work! It's very much appreciated!

[Acey]

A cool thing would be a stolen move for SeanAlty's CM Punk

Oh she'll be able to fight with SeanAlty's stuff, that's for sure.

[SanjiSasuke]

I wonder what she could take from Snake...

[HyperVoiceActing]

I wonder what she could take from Snake...

His ability to pull boxes out of nowhere?

[Acey]

Same problem for Punisher, maybe just give her a "grump" stance and face for all those non powered types.

[SanjiSasuke]

Well if she got her own bike for the Ghost Rider, why not guns/knives?

[Acey]

Well if she got her own bike for the Ghost Rider, why not guns/knives?

I agree.

[HyperVoiceActing]

I do want to try and make a real crazy stance for when she steals from Joker

[Slayer]

I do want to try and make a real crazy stance for when she steals from Joker

Sounds real good

[abls1]

Great character!!!  She truly captures the essence of Rogues when she steals other characters powers... I wish she hard a stronger AI... I posted your release in another forum and people acted plain stupid and ungrateful, here you give a good character with awesome potential and they are judging it like you are getting paid to do it, thanks for your contributions to our mugen community in my opinion they has should be up there with the "Dragon Claw", "Eviel Ken" and "Rare Akuma" authors!

Thanks Again

[HyperVoiceActing]

Sounds real good

Also maybe she could have white skin and green hair as well.

Not sure how versatile Acey's "Stolen Skin" pal thing is for something like that but I'm sure it's possible (not easy but possible)