Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3

[C.R.O.M. - ManoloStyle]

Damn I made my return to imt to see this smh. Weskers the best characater in the game period. What does that mean? Not much. Why? Ultimate is a very balanced game. The damage is high so everyone is a threat. a good 30 or so characters have a very competetive toolset. The changes to the characters havent just adjusted balance for those individual characters but also have put a bigger emphasis on different roles and playstyles. Guys dont try to justify what your doing to win. Just win.

@crom
one person doing well in a high tier matchup doesnt make a good character worse than they are it just means that one person was more experienced in the match up and had the will to win it. Dont discredit the hard work of another player it leads to you blaming your losses on characters and takes away from your ability to calculate your own player errors preventing you for improving.

thats all for my phantom og imt thread redirect proceed with your ranting

Wesker IS the best character in the game and I think the glasses buff was unnecessary, but I like what Yung Kratos said before and I will quote it again for anyone that feels the need to whine about specific characters...  

It's not about the characters...  

It's about the skill of the player...  

Learn to play and don't complain...  

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

*raises hand* i wanna rant!

if UMVC was so balanced then why make a patch to "balance" it again? . Wesker i will agree is probably the best character in the game...because Manolo uses him like a demon from hell! .   . I can say this as an early 80's fighter player as well. characters and players make the game fighting experience no matter what game it is. a cheaply buffed character with easy access moves most likely will dish out major whoopins especially in the hands of someone who has learned to exploit those moves, but on another hand i been beaten by someone back in the day using a less tiered character but he was good at exploiting that character core cheapo power moves ..Zangief suck in driver in a very unbalanced turbo edition.  .......
UMVC and vanilla was designed to be easy access for new players to easily (if put in the time to learn the button commands) hang with better fighters from the mvc era cause back then your wins over noobs were extremely easy. you would pretty much kick them off the game before they even started.  but now with 6 buttons gone and all those pro and good ole nostalgic players had to learn the new ropes so the playing field would be leveled, read this in one of my gamin mags, game informer i think it was when mvc3 was still previewing , in an interview.( must now find my dang mag again!).

your right too Manolo bro, learn to fight to win, meaning learn to exploit all the unbalancing of a character to win. . just messin with ya, but yet kinda true.
I played the holy heck out of UMVC3 with my homies over his house, Dante,Vergil and Wesker are the men, thats all i can say. . i actually raked in some good wins against my boys who are awesome at it, cause i used friggin Vergil! So in my case, it was the character and not just the skill. I got banned from using Vergil.  . but honestly, some people yes do complain cause they not winning matches but its not because they not skilled enough , sometimes its because who they are fighting has learned to exploit the games fighting mechanics enough to use the so called "balancing to their advantage...or you get mad spammers and infinite abusers. so i can agree and disagree with you both yung Kratos and Manolo. 

[C.R.O.M. - ManoloStyle]

 


I agree...but in my honest opinion the top 20 characters possibly in this order are Wesker, Spencer, Hawkeye, Wolverine, Dante, Vergil, Doctor Doom, Zero, X-23, Magneto, Taskmaster, Sentinel, Hulk, Ryu, Nova, Akuma, Amaterasu, Ghost Rider, Dormammu and She-Hulk...21 is Frank West and 22 is Nemesis...

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

you know what Manolo, i can say Spencer can be in that spot after Wesker. yep i can say that. why?.. i played against you guys in Vanilla and i saw a major difference in player fights. when i played against you guys, and Spencer was indeed picked( not sure if was you or whiplash or gangsta Lux) but it was an actual square up fight.  now take that instance cause i did get my butt handed to me but at least i got some hits in ( i swear i think i did ) but when i played a random user one day afterwards , he pretty much went banas and just did this wack combo that actually worked. he kept me off balance by just grab , hit combo ,smash away, grab again while going back, pull in combo , smash away , grab again , pull  and combo! dude, it was not fun at all. my facial expression was just... why am i playing him?

. later i played another Spencer user...gawd in fear....but he played streamline with the combo chaining and utilized every aspect of Spencer arsenal.  yeah i loss but i found new respect for Spencer after that.

the rest of your list...i can agree with those. Hawkeye tho...havent used him before, only my buddy did, i beat him with Vergil from a distance with that long azz sword reach. . So yeah it is definetly in the hands of ther players fight style as well cause some people use characters full arsenal while other utilize the unbalancing with the infinites and such to garner wins when they cant play fully functional match sets.  We have dude in our crew ( Charles aka the Chuck) is such a super nerd, he has played UMVC3 to death that he counts frames!!! i mean literally he counts start up frames outloud while fighting you! super annoying. but the crap works! 

[Yung Kratos]

@Lando
The balance in The mvc series comes from some its user friendly mechanics. See The fact that a trained monkey could do a full wesker combo, an 8 year old can mash standing h all the way outta pools, your grandmother can kill 2 characters, and your buddies first time playing he could take a game off you with lvl 3 xfacor. All this adds up to you having to be completely and totally on point at all times. Theres a certain stress management in it that id say only Tekken has (another very balanced high damage game). You are held accountable for everything you do or dont do. Every team every character has the ability to take advantage of these situations it all depends on your work. You also gotta recognize when are you not workin hard enough and when your doing too much and getting yourself killed.

also @manolo
You gotta look deeper into characters toolsets when you theory fight. looking at your top 20 it looks like top 20 ONLINE. Viper Is SUPER S+++++ tier and shes not even on there and everyday more people are coming to the consensus that Zero is number 1 and having played him for the past 2 weeks and having a pocket zero in FOTW its pretty hard to disagree.

One more Week till H&H mode is released i cant wait to see what kinda nonsense i come up with in that.

[C.R.O.M. - ManoloStyle]

@ Yung Kratos - I completely agree with what you said about Zero, he is a great character, and he is my second most hated character in the game. The right Zero user can take over a match in no time. He is fast, has an easy learning curve and can get behind you with ease.

My third most hated character is Dark Phoenix because most people just play cautious all game just to spam her in the end, and once she becomes Dark, it takes no skill to spam her into a win.

Trish is my most hated character because practically everyone uses the same lame tactic: fly, spam projectile, come down and try to combo, if missed, they repeat. I think it's just cheap since they spend most of the time flying where she is near impossible to reach, but once you catch her or pin her, they have no clue how to retaliate. This is the reason I don't consider Trish top tier. In my opinion, she has a limited arsenal and a high learning curve, but she could be, in the right hands. I have seen some Trish users that will not do that lame tactic and could destroy an entire team with her devastating long combos. My friend Raul is one of them...

Capcom should have provided a limit on how many times flying or projectiles are used within a match or should have penalized them heavily on hyper bar every time its done, but of course, that would really hurt noobs and cheap no skill spammers...

The way I see it, Wesker, Spencer and Hawkeye still hold the top three spots, online at least, since it is all I play. The 4th spot, I think it's shared between Wolverine, Dante, Vergil, Doctor Doom, Zero, X-23 and Magneto. Either one can have an advantage over the other, but it depends on the skill of the player.

However, I don't see Viper as top tier, but again, I have never seen a great Viper outside of YouTube videos. I have seen good ones, but not great ones. I know she hits hard, but I see everyone having problems setting her up and countering with her. All Viper users I have seen or met online get overwhelmed easily against the top tier characters with great assist pressure, but again, that is just my opinion...

[Yung Kratos]

Trish really doesnt do damage she does have kill combos with specific setups with dante but outside of that specific team she cant do damage she has a runaway tool set augmented with some great light attacks and wide hitboxes on her other moves. very solid all around but the majority of her matchups are won by frustrating her oponent into making a stupid aproach and then punishing them for that.

Capcom also did implement limits on air movement you can only do 3 air actions before your forced to the ground and in Dantes case he DOES have to use meter to fly phoenix now specifically only gets one air action each character is handled according to their play style and other than firebrand i cant think of a flying character thats top 10 material.

Viper is god tier because she can shut down your assists at will. Build max meter and TOD on touch. with the right assists can make unblockables that can hit you while your airborne. unapproachable while she has meter. focus attacks in a marvel game are dumb. and might still have her burn kick thunder knuckle infinite.

Judging from your posts and from you continued use of the word spam you have a personal weakness against zoning and might not have a complete understanding of spacing.

While its an SF guide for Ryu i would suggest watching



Watching this guide air shows how you can better measure your spacing once you know this you can beter deal with zoning. See everytime a projectile character uses a proectile once you know wat you options are you can gain a small victory even if its just getting small jump your pushing your opp to the corner. this all still applies to marvel as basically its a guide on how to move properly in a 2d space.

[Acey]

focus attacks in a marvel game are dumb.

Me might have to agree to disagree on this. I think the focus attack was a great idea considering C. Viper represents SFIV. Capcom tried to bring elements of each character's origin into the game, Haggar loses life on his spinning lariot, V. Joe can dodge attacks, Phoenix Wright does all that evidence gather stuff, Dante has crazy DmC style combos, etc... I think the attempt to be inclusive is clever.

On another note, I love the video, thanks for sharing! I believe due to the pace of MvC3 and the play style of Ryu in that particular game it's really not as relevant but in a SFII through SF IV environment the pokes, fireball tell, all that stuff is gold!

[Jelux Da Casual]

On another note, I love the video, thanks for sharing! I believe due to the pace of MvC3 and the play style of Ryu in that particular game it's really not as relevant but in a SFII through SF IV environment the pokes, fireball tell, all that stuff is gold!

Dude, I'm still watching it and I haven't played IV since it was vanilla.

[C.R.O.M. - ManoloStyle]

Capcom also did implement limits on air movement...

Viper is god tier because she can shut down your assists at will. Build max meter and TOD on touch. with the right assists can make unblockables that can hit you while your airborne. unapproachable while she has meter. focus attacks in a marvel game are dumb. and might still have her burn kick thunder knuckle infinite.

Judging from your posts and from you continued use of the word spam you have a personal weakness against zoning and might not have a complete understanding of spacing.

1. I don't think the limits on air movement are enough, when some players can just do it over and over again even if it means flying, projectile, call assist to defend fall, fly again, repeat. It's just annoying. Not that most can win doing this, but some can. I just think that it is completely idiotic and unnecesary in this type of game.

2. Again I repeat, that in my over 5,000 matches in Vanilla and my over 1,000 matches in Ultimate, I have never met a great Viper...

3. I don't have a problem with zoning or spacing. I do it myself, but that is not what I am talking about when I say "spamming". What I am referring to are the players that pick a specific team that includes either Hawkeye, Deadpool, Magneto, Sentinel Taskmaster, or any other fast projectile based character and just stay in one corner all match while they shoot projectile after projectile, while constantly calling a projectile assist over and over, filling the screen with projectiles and when you reach them, they just run away to the other corner to do the same, but once you kill any of their characters they have no clue what to do, since they don't even know how to do a combo. It is just pathetic and there are a ton of them out there...

PS. Thanks for the video reference. I will watch it. I am always willing to learn...





 

[Yung Kratos]

@ acey
No i mean dumb in terms of how strong it is especially since you can absorb hits as long as you choose. Not to say i dont like it i meant dumb as in its stupid good. I do like it as a part of her toolset and completely agree on each character having there own mechanics based out of there original lore and medium.

as for the video i assure you of the core things you learn from it are applicable to any game. learning the arcs of your jumps and hitboxes, what time to hit your button according to the hitbox to the character your fighting, learning the recovery of your projectiles and your opponents to see what kind of options you have if you react to one at different distances. Seeing how all that stuff works with one specific character shows you how you can develop your own character in any game and it really gives you a deeper understanding of zoning altogether. Gootecks sent it to me before its public release and ill say it helped me to become a better player in all games.

@manolo
Well you should experiment with keepaway and runaway teams then it will give you a great understanding of there weaknesses what situations are good and bad for that style. I assure you though there is merit to that style of play and it is anything but a walk in the park. every zoning pattern has gaps that result in full combos full combos in marvel 3 result in death. Its all on you the player to learn about the game you playing and make every match about you not the game or the characters or anything other than you.

viper is not easy to use at all so of course you havent ran into a good one online. only 1 out of every 500 or so offline tourney players even attempt to play her but her work is certainly worth the reward.

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

yeah imma have to go with Acey on the vid thing. i found that very educational for those who dont know the ins and outs of true spacing for like the sf series, which you WONT get those kinda square up fair one fights in the mvc3 series,  wasnt designed for that kind of playing field. yes you can try to utlize it but i got to say a huge percent of the players out there arent focusing on true spacing, bait and trap manuevers. the cerebal gameplay mechanic isnt really there as deep as other fighters but it has its way to get around that with learning the combo chaining techniques which are the essential to must do to be pretty good and to keep in ranking.with other better fighters. Funny thing, me and Demonkai first time going at in vanilla was hilarious cause we approached it as a sf game.   us for trying that because by the next round and after we went at it the way you supposed to play it.  after a few rounds itas like we both said nahhh and loaded ssf4ae and resumed our mental breakdown matches with spacing, baiting and trapping, set ups, combos and air juggles with ex air juggles ( yes thank you T.hawk ) . we are die hard old school style players.  MVC3 and Ultimate play at a different speed and skill type.

Like you said Yung Kratos my 10 year old now can do combos in the air with so much ease after 3 days of playing like he was natural at it. i creamed him of course the first day we played  but by 3rd day in and he went into practice mode for 2 days, lil dude was air comboing and all like Manolo and others i had a hard time playing against. yeah dad was gettin canned in of matches against him, i even went as far as checkin to see if he hasd it set for his controller to be on simple mode. .

i asked my son a very cool question, so whats your thoughts on the game Smurf? ( yeah his nickname is Smurf ) i was surprised with the amount of detail feedback i got from him on it, he liked it only when he fought against other people, its easier than mvc2 and not as deep as virtua fighter 5 ( his favorite 3d fighting game as well as mine with doa series right next to it)  and its super fast, and you can punish people if you can get the first hit string in and not drop the combo, Its a combo game dad not a mind game fighter ! dudes, i wanted to field goal kick him after that. .he not even a fighting game player, he a shooter nut ( yeah thanx Kai for the left for dead  speech cause we rented the game and he kicked me off the 360 for a week ) but to see how fast he picked it up revitilized my thoughts on approaching the game. i had to throw away everything i learned playing MVC2 for all those years. I dont have UMVC3 myself ( i will just wait to see what this patch does and when it comes down in price ) but i got to rock on it for 2 and half good straight weeks to see whats what. Its got some cool new additions ( still wanted my Jin Satome and cap commando !) in characters  which some i thought i would hate but turned around and liked because of the ease they offer, its still unbalanced in of areas ( but i dont expect balancing in the mvc series anymore or ever from them) but its an awesome party game to have fun with ya friends.

[C.R.O.M. - ManoloStyle]

@manolo
Well you should experiment with keepaway and runaway teams then it will give you a great understanding of there weaknesses what situations are good and bad for that style. I assure you though there is merit to that style of play and it is anything but a walk in the park. every zoning pattern has gaps that result in full combos full combos in marvel 3 result in death. Its all on you the player to learn about the game you playing and make every match about you not the game or the characters or anything other than you.

viper is not easy to use at all so of course you havent ran into a good one online. only 1 out of every 500 or so offline tourney players even attempt to play her but her work is certainly worth the reward.

Yung Kratos, do you play online? I would like to play with you... 

I have the game on both 360 and PS3...

XBL Gamertag: ManoloStyle

PSN Gamertag: MANOLOSTYLE


 

[Swiziga]

so if you learn how to play the game any cheap tactic is beatable right? so can someone please tell me how to stop a person who is spamming strider's godlike teleport with doom's hidden missile? i had a rank match with someone doing that anything i did was stopped even if i was hitting doom strider teleports and hits overhead and combos. i just put the controller down and messaged the guy saying he was the best mvc3 player ive ever seen. he said thanks. and i replied saying i wished i was as good as him atr spamming but sadly i play like a normal person

[SanjiSasuke]

so if you learn how to play the game any cheap tactic is beatable right? so can someone please tell me how to stop a person who is spamming strider's godlike teleport with doom's hidden missile? i had a rank match with someone doing that anything i did was stopped even if i was hitting doom strider teleports and hits overhead and combos. i just put the controller down and messaged the guy saying he was the best mvc3 player ive ever seen. he said thanks. and i replied saying i wished i was as good as him atr spamming but sadly i play like a normal person

Mixture of  and 
Assists and block until you catch off guard?

[Swiziga]

tried that the guy just spammed teleport with hidden missile even if i got close i had to block because of the missiles the match was going nowhere and he would have won anyway because of all the chip damage if i had just blocked the entire match

[Yung Kratos]

so if you learn how to play the game any cheap tactic is beatable right? so can someone please tell me how to stop a person who is spamming strider's godlike teleport with doom's hidden missile? i had a rank match with someone doing that anything i did was stopped even if i was hitting doom strider teleports and hits overhead and combos. i just put the controller down and messaged the guy saying he was the best mvc3 player ive ever seen. he said thanks. and i replied saying i wished i was as good as him atr spamming but sadly i play like a normal person

In this situation for example you would have to look at Striders weakest position from a spacing situation. your opening is going to come from an air to ground his best aa is standing s (which is unsafe) so your going to position yourself to jump on him airblock s and then hit him with a light attack to ensure the punish into full combo. Against missiles you dont superjump so if he calls missiles and then jumps just swing on the assist. your probably going to be hitting his assist . now as for dealing with the teleport im not sure if its safe i would try to jump up and airthrow him i havnt tested that but i do know that his air to ground normals dont have the priority they appear to have so i would see if he commits to anything and aa him acordingly.

as for matches im on xbl yungkratos i have space on my fl 4 u guys

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

i just put the controller down and messaged the guy saying he was the best mvc3 player ive ever seen. he said thanks. and i replied saying i wished i was as good as him atr spamming but sadly i play like a normal person

  dont feel bad man, i had plenty of those moments. i come to figure one solid thing out about the series.....it aint normal and you cant play it like a normal person. , you must become one with any of the following: Spastic spammer, Infinite Infinite comboer, Air chain god, ground chain specialist, total rush jesus, in your face before match begins so i can get in the first hit and keep the combo going till i smash you up against the wall with hulk standing h and the like players, tag out godlike in middle of chaining expert, Corner burgler , holy moses of lag that seems to work only in your favor and the all time favorite Rage quitter when they winning and you mounting a comeback they drop connection or log off purposely.  now switchout the last 2 and if you can somehow combine all these fatcors into one solid type player....UNHOLY BEAST! they will never win against you then. but taking lil tiny bits and peices can make a decent enuff player when practiced and going up against any of the others you can put up a cool fight and better with practice but remember there is no thing called a Square Up normal fight in mvc3 series. Its about speed in execution and precision of comboing skills and all the like in hyper speed!  better edited. 

[DEMONKAI]

and i replied saying i wished i was as good as him atr spamming but sadly i play like a normal person

 

[Kriven]

Just jumping in to mention that if you lose to someone who isn't using a gameshark or something, they're better than you, whether they used a rinsed and repeated attack scheme or not. "spamming" within the limits of the game is a technique. Being unable to adapt to that technique shows that you aren't as great as you'd like to believe you are. The idea is to win, and so long as you aren't messing with code, any technique you use to win by is fair play.

[C.R.O.M. - ManoloStyle]

so if you learn how to play the game any cheap tactic is beatable right? so can someone please tell me how to stop a person who is spamming strider's godlike teleport with doom's hidden missile? i had a rank match with someone doing that anything i did was stopped even if i was hitting doom strider teleports and hits overhead and combos. i just put the controller down and messaged the guy saying he was the best mvc3 player ive ever seen. he said thanks. and i replied saying i wished i was as good as him atr spamming but sadly i play like a normal person

What characters where you using in your team? 

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

Just jumping in to mention that if you lose to someone who isn't using a gameshark or something, they're better than you, whether they used a rinsed and repeated attack scheme or not. "spamming" within the limits of the game is a technique. Being unable to adapt to that technique shows that you aren't as great as you'd like to believe you are. The idea is to win, and so long as you aren't messing with code, any technique you use to win by is fair play.

good thought there bro, good thought. but i have to say at gthe end of that, well that applies to these days in fighting gaming. not the old school ways. i have seen plenty of mvc2 at the cabinet knockouts and fisticuffs when spammers jumped on. i mean even the top notch players at the arcade wasnt having that even tho they could trash a spammer. there was once a sort of "code" that 80's and early 90's players had. thats all out the window these days.   win is a win eh.

@ Manolo... bro remember , its the player skill not the characters that matter  .  just fudgin with ya

[G.P.O.A - GatlingPunchRalf]

there was once a sort of "code" that 80's and early 90's players had. thats all out the window these days.   win is a win eh.

I have been saying that since I dunno how long.

[C.R.O.M. - ManoloStyle]

good thought there bro, good thought. but i have to say at gthe end of that, well that applies to these days in fighting gaming. not the old school ways. i have seen plenty of mvc2 at the cabinet knockouts and fisticuffs when spammers jumped on. i mean even the top notch players at the arcade wasnt having that even tho they could trash a spammer. there was once a sort of "code" that 80's and early 90's players had. thats all out the window these days.  win is a win eh.

@ Manolo... bro remember , its the player skill not the characters that matter  .   just fudgin with ya

I don't think there are that many cheap no skill spammers in live face-to-face play. They would have been killed by now...  

@ Kriven - I don't agree with what you said. Those cheap no skill tactics are there only to appeal to noobs and no skill players, just so Crapcom can make a buck on their sad lives...  


@ Swiziga - Again, what characters were you using on that match?  

[ATiC3]

Totally not a part of the current discussion, but if you don't see your gamertag/psn whatever then message me that because I won't see it here due to the amount of posting that usually occurs. XD