The broken MUGEN community.

[Slivern]

I can't take anymore. No this isn't a rant thread, I'm not ranting.

Anyways, so recently I've been getting cool stuff for my MUGEN.

I'm working on New Kakyoin right now, and, this went into my mind:

"Is the community doing the right thing, RIGHT NOW"

Don't you agree?

The MUGEN community is the most incredible community I've ever known. But now, let's look at it again: We've worked on these characters for pretty much the whole time we've been here, and, did we give it our effort to make MUGEN a really great engine? Did we do the right thing to keep going?

And heck, was it wrong for us to to neglect Elecbyte's rules in the past? And for leechers and warehousers, Do I know the consequences of breaking the rules?

This is why I'm creating this thread: We are fans, and MUGEN is fanart. But now MUGEN, to me, is no longer acceptable as it is.

Here's the thing: We love to sprite edit, right sprite editors? But do we all know that we have to give credit and respect their wishes? Some of us do, some of us don't.

I've realized that all sprite edits were called "my own" by many sprite editors including me. But now I will no longer be one of those people. The reason is because we're going to have to face it: We could be breaking the rules.

In fact, I don't consider myself as a recognized, well-behaved, and an innocent sprite editor anymore. I'm breaking the rules and I know it. In fact, it's a rule that Capcom, SNK Playmore, and other companies always wanted to put up: DON'T USE OUR MATERIAL WITHOUT PERMISSION.

Maybe we aren't as innocent. Think about it. For 10 years, We've loved the engine. And then we use ripped sprites from other games, and midway through those years, those companies wanted their sprites NOT to be used in their games and tried to get people to stop those people from ripping those sprites, and they failed. And the next thing that happens, is the second attempt. Although MugenGuild has clarified MUGEN as fan-art, I just don't think so anymore.

We've gone too far. I'm not saying that we should stop doing what we always do in the MUGEN community. I'm saying that we should keep MUGEN hidden from the public.

And that was something Elecbyte said to the people who found out about MUGEN. And did they, no, WE, obey? No.

And I decided to find out just now to see If Elecbyte is truly alive. And it turns out they are. Look it up on whois.net and you'll see. Now the next thing I want now is ORDER. We all want order in the MUGEN community. Let's hope there is (make sure you dont post anything from whois or else you'll break their rules. See the information personally, but don't post it in the thread.)

We may be great pixel artists and MUGEN-makers, but there is few originality withing us.

2D will truly be back in fashion. See to it.

[Ohsky]

if we are lazy is because we aren´t paid for our work, wtf hahaha


Seems hard to keep mugen from the public as youtube for example has countless videos and all that. I dont think things gonna change for the worse or that we should take this mugen thing that seriously.

[ATiC3]

So... yeah... Uh.. I read that whole thing...

It's not going to change anything.. People are still going to use sprites, for example, made by Capcom for characters and as bases for new characters... Nothing will change that. In my own opinion, people aren't just ripping sprites to make new versions of characters... They're ripping sprites to make new versions of characters, because they're inspired by new ideas and such.

You may want 'order', but you're never going to get everything you want....

[Ohsky]

not even a 2% of what he wants hahah

[shootYr.]

This Is The Most Non Rant Rant Thread Ever...

[♦ßlôödÑinjå♦]

What Yzan said.

[ATiC3]

And I decided to find out just now to see If Elecbyte is truly alive. And it turns out they are. Look it up on whois.net and you'll see. Now the next thing I want now is ORDER. We all want order in the MUGEN community. Let's hope there is (make sure you dont post anything from whois or else you'll break their rules. See the information personally, but don't post it in the thread.)

2D will truly be back in fashion. See to it.

First off, not everyone wants order in the MUGEN community.. Have you asked everyone??

Secondly,

 

I'm about to defy you...


I wonder if anyone knew this...

(click to show/hide)

Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com)
   Domain Name: MUGEN-INFANTRY.NET

[Ohsky]

order means stress, disorder means relax.

And mostly, people create, play mugen to do the second.

[KudosForce]

Bringing the entire Mugen community into order is like trying to track down all the hackers: it's impossible.

I prefer free will. It's much better that way.

Besides, this forum is prosperous.

[I_Burner]

Just some quick points here:

- Regarding use of Capcom, SNK, etc sprites: it's fan art. As long as nobody tries to make money from it, nobody gets hurt. Capcom has even stated that this is their position on MUGEN.

- Regarding keeping MUGEN from the public: This idea is A) impossible due to 9 years worth of exposure and thousands of fans worldwide. B) pointless since it would only take a few people to keep it out in the open.

- Regarding instilling "order" in the community: You mean like jumping all over people who don't follow the "MUGEN Code"? Going ape$#!+ on some poor kid who edits someone's character without permission because he doesn't know he's doing something "wrong"? Been there, done that. We put the MUGEN Police to bed a couple of years ago for a reason: nobody likes them.

- Regarding this not being a "rant thread": 

Now quit b!tching and go play some games!

[MuηkyMØÜf]

im sorry but the first post is full of contradictions i dont care to point out.

not to be an @$$ but.....SHUT UP & PLAY MUGEN

cause we all know that you, myself, or anyone here and at other forums is not gonna stop right or wrong. @least not until they get extremely bored with or to busy for mugen.

btw

none of the gaming companies can really do anything about it cause MUGEN is free. hell, I wouldnt be surprised if some of the "community" members are or were big time game creators or testers.
 

  someone's subconscience is leaking

[MirageAtoli]

Regarding use of Capcom, SNK, etc sprites: it's fan art. As long as nobody tries to make money from it, nobody gets hurt. Capcom has even stated that this is their position on MUGEN.

I'm not to fond of this reasoning, personally. Isn't that basically concluding that because it is done from a commercial game, it is okay?

[Jelux Da Casual]

I'm not to fond of this reasoning, personally. Isn't that basically concluding that because it is done from a commercial game, it is okay?

Well, the companies have themselves come out and said they're fine with what we do since there's no money to be made. I believe you can even find a stated concent to that statement over at randomselect. So if they themselves are fine with it, then there is no problem here. If they told us not to, we wouldn't still be doing so.

[MirageAtoli]

Well, the companies have themselves come out and said they're fine with what we do since there's no money to be made. I believe you can even find a stated concent to that statement over at randomselect. So if they themselves are fine with it, then there is no problem here. If they told us not to, we wouldn't still be doing so.

Because you can do something, doesn't mean that you should.

There are other factors involved too. Mostly the fact that Capcom et. all don't have financing to sue over the misuse of their property and the fact that hurting the fans isn't the smartest way to build a brand community.

Note that the letter, also isn't a legally binding one.

The logic of 'if it doesn't hurt anyone, its okay' is slightly unsettling to me. It seems to ignores the fact other factors may be involved.

[Jelux Da Casual]

Because you can do something, doesn't mean that you should.

There are other factors involved too. Mostly the fact that Capcom et. all don't have financing to sue over the misuse of their property and the fact that hurting the fans isn't the smartest way to build a brand community.

Note that the letter, also isn't a legally binding one.

The logic of 'if it doesn't hurt anyone, its okay' is slightly unsettling to me. It seems to ignores the fact other factors may be involved.

Define other factors.

You see it as some kind of morality factor or something? Cause we still to this day continue to back these companies by buying their product legitally. In fact, now that I finally got my return, one thing I plan on doing tommorow afternoon is buying myself a nice sweet new copy of Street Fighter IV. And I don't who in their right mind isn't going to get MvC2 when it drops this summer, again. Personally, this'll be the third time I buy that game.

[MirageAtoli]

Define other factors.

The fact that Capcom would restrict the use of their content if they could. This is true in the case of French Bread, who had to concede to the pressure of fans.

You see it as some kind of morality factor or something?

I didn't intend to put it into a discussion of a moral context, but have probably done that by its nature. It is shocking that people lift resources, without a second thought. See all the videos on Youtube with "I don't own ___________."

I'm not against our remix/mashup/cut-and-paste culture, I just wish people would be more literate.
I'm also not against creating mugen characters from already existing properties. The premise just doesn't hold up.

Cause we still to this day continue to back these companies by buying their product legitally. In fact, now that I finally got my return, one thing I plan on doing tommorow afternoon is buying myself a nice sweet new copy of Street Fighter IV. And I don't who in their right mind isn't going to get MvC2 when it drops this summer, again. Personally, this'll be the third time I buy that game.

I'm not to fond of this business model either; especially with Lucas remaking Star Wars a bajillion times.

[Jelux Da Casual]

I didn't intend to put it into a discussion of a moral context, but have probably done that by its nature. It is shocking that people lift resources, without a second thought. See all the videos on Youtube with "I don't own ___________."

That there is just the standard model of desperate people who want to have hits on something that they post to their account, regardless of whether or not it is their's. I don't think that mugen can really be put in that kind of classification since that is straight up "copypasta" (clone vid and post) whereas mugen forces creator to try to re-create what is it they are trying to emulate pratically from scratch.

[HornTitan]

How true.

Anyway people like me like to run a muck, I've been banned several times for stealing other people's work and editing it and I went around fighting them back that they were no different for the same reasons. Later I tried a new approach and just did my work privately and not posting my edits but still being me and I got banned anyways for warehousing on my own website/forum. I wasn't even warned.

Seems no matter what I do I still get banned and no matter how hard I fight it, mugen will always be dissatisfying for everyone whether you're with KFM's constitution or Big Sally's Bill of Rights you'll always lose. The best I can hope for and I recommend this to anyone is to just do what you were all meant to do, and that is

Lurk

or

create your own forum with your own rules but have 1% of the forum's population.

Anyway I'm assed-out

[b.easy]

whether you're with KFM's constitution or Big Sally's Bill of Rights you'll always lose.

This is true. It also made me .

[Slivern]

order means stress, disorder means relax.

And mostly, people create, play mugen to do the second.

Wait, really? Oh my gosh! So that means...we're using the word order wrong? I'm Filipino, And I don't use English right. But really?

Anyways, I know we all don't want order. Now I don't want order now, hehehe!

[GodzFire]

Slivern, that was one of the most useless rants I've heard.

Sure, let's stop working with MUGEN, cause after all, I'm sure if we just wait, these companies will put out a game engine and their sprites to allow for battles from multiple intellectual properties, like Street Fighter, MK, TMNT, Marvel, Capcom, Nintendo, etc.

Do you honestly think that it would be possible to have Zero & Mother Brain Vs Peter Griffin & Wonder Woman on a NBA Jam court anywhere else but here?

MUGEN is the only way these dream matches can happen.

[Slivern]

Slivern, that was one of the most useless rants I've heard.

Sure, let's stop working with MUGEN, cause after all, I'm sure if we just wait, these companies will put out a game engine and their sprites to allow for battles from multiple intellectual properties, like Street Fighter, MK, TMNT, Marvel, Capcom, Nintendo, etc.

Do you honestly think that it would be possible to have Zero & Mother Brain Vs Peter Griffin & Wonder Woman on a NBA Jam court anywhere else but here?

MUGEN is the only way these dream matches can happen.

Forget the order part guys. I totally need to get Rosetta Stone English, hehehe.

That was NOT a rant. This thread is about looking at MUGEN about 10 years. Because it really has been 10 years.

You've made your opinions about this. Now, I'd like to ask all of you: What are the wrongs and rights I did in the MUGEN community? Do I regret doing the wrongs? Was the rights really right? Was there any arousing resentment in my wrongs?

I could answer a few.

Wrongs from me:
-I called edited sprites I made my own but I realized that it was also Capcom or SNK or others who made the original and I never gave those people credit. (Remember that we're looking in the past and now.)
-I never asked for help from others for my characters (I admit that I need help in coding New Kakyoin, but I never asked when I was supposed to. I'm not friendly to strangers, so I never ask.)
-I put up a thread and made useless points (That's this one, oops, but we have to reflect.)
-At the same time, I procrastinated and hesitated on making my characters,

What I did right:
-I did not make money from MUGEN.
-I did not start any conflicts in the community.
-I stayed out of "community wars" like that Jessica Smoke time.
-I was very busy with my MUGEN characters and made a promise that I will make them.

So that's me. What are your rights and wrongs?

How true.

Anyway people like me like to run a muck, I've been banned several times for stealing other people's work and editing it and I went around fighting them back that they were no different for the same reasons. Later I tried a new approach and just did my work privately and not posting my edits but still being me and I got banned anyways for warehousing on my own website/forum. I wasn't even warned.

Seems no matter what I do I still get banned and no matter how hard I fight it, mugen will always be dissatisfying for everyone whether you're with KFM's constitution or Big Sally's Bill of Rights you'll always lose. The best I can hope for and I recommend this to anyone is to just do what you were all meant to do, and that is

Lurk

or

create your own forum with your own rules but have 1% of the forum's population.

Anyway I'm assed-out

You win, you lose. You lose you lose. Why's that?

Well think of Captain Falcon winning the Grand Prix. He lost at the same time. Why? Because while he wins, he gets condemned by his rivals and gets more rivals.

If he lost, he would have condemned his rivals because I know he really wants to win the Grand Prix.

Win is losing. Losing is losing.

So that means you always lost with all these rules, HornTitan. Even I lose sometimes, because I say "You wrong when I'm not supposed too." That's another wrong I did.

[Alexziq]

I personally want mugen in the mainstream so it can be governed by actaul laws, and guidlines instead of the rules handed down by a handful of individuals trying to mandate a vague set of rules that vari from forum to forum, and dont reflect the general consensus of the the community by in large.

No pity for the majority

[shootYr.]

Wrongs from me:
-I never asked for help from others for my characters (I admit that I need help in coding New Kakyoin, but I never asked when I was supposed to. I'm not friendly to strangers, so I never ask.)
-At the same time, I procrastinated and hesitated on making my characters,

You Don't Have To Ask Anyone For Help, Nor Do You Have To Make A Deadline For Yourself. Procrastination If Ok.

[Tenspeed]

tl;dr