The presidential election

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

real talk right there bro eg6gsr. no matter who it would been , its a hell of a job to fix this debt.

and i agree, thats statement is the best cause all over the news, republicans are pretty much shook and farting  baby powder gas about this and something really needs to be done between both political parties and stop ducking and dodging issues and each other and work together. thats how the country will get fixed. too much bickering and not enough worrying about the people that pay them to DO THEY D@MN JOBS RIGHT for all of us.  We are a divided country that really needs to stand together and stop pointing fingers at each other and thinking one is better than the other and get the jobs rolling and people employed with some better wages and have the economy going in the right direction.


yo that Kevin Hart quote was just too freakin hilarious cause i know that is something he just had to say.  next it will be about Weed being legal now is some states. 

[O Ilusionista]

Thanks God you pick Obama. I just can't accept people voting in someone  which was the same group of that murder called Bush.

Sorry if I offend anyone.

[Shadic54]

Now I dont have to worry about parenthood! YAY!

[Acey]

The European nations such as Greece and Spain are in an awful financial state. Their governments created a system where the tax revenue is over half of each person's income in order to fund healthcare and the government. Then as their gross national product declined people started to lose their jobs and college graduates were unable to find jobs. Now the government has all the costs to pay for but the tax revenue isn't there because unemployment is too high.  This is an issue of creating too much "fixed costs" in the government. These are the type of costs that stay high even though the economy is bad (low gross national product and unemployment). 

Now in the US we have growing unemployment, college grads who can't find good jobs, people still losing their homes but fortunately we only pay 15 to 30% in taxes and that sustains the government. With Obama as president Health Care costs will go up and taxes will as well. Our ability to have survived big mistakes like evil bank lending practices, financial fraud and government subsidized industries like ethanol and automobiles is because the government has maintained a pretty lean way of doing business compared to the other developed nations.

With Obama's policies health care cost will go up for those who hold insurance and for the government welfare programs too. The taxes will go up too now that he has won his second term. Then as the government becomes more and more dependent on high tax funds then the next crisis that hits us will likely be the next real recession. Obama is a good man, and a good leader, I voted for him the first time but I do not agree with many of his fiscal policies from the last 4 years. I can’t, I’m an accountant who actually pays attention to politics.


luckely we're a bigger nation so we have more goods to sell to the rest of the world.

[O Ilusionista]

Things I can't understand in USA election: why it takes so much time? and why still use paper to make that?

Here in Brazil, we use a direct recording eletronic voting machine, which gives us the results of the whole country (and we are almost 200 milion) on the same day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRE_voting_machine

[Acey]

Things I can't understand in USA election: why it takes so much time? and why still use paper to make that?

Here in Brazil, we use a direct recording eletronic voting machine, which gives us the results of the whole country (and we are almost 200 milion) on the same day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRE_voting_machine

I dunno? Except for early voting it all happens in one day then they count them all up in the evening. Most all the states were done last night except for Florida, and I still don't know what's up with them.

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

Things I can't understand in USA election: why it takes so much time? and why still use paper to make that?

Here in Brazil, we use a direct recording eletronic voting machine, which gives us the results of the whole country (and we are almost 200 milion) on the same day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRE_voting_machine

i as well think that is kinda weird to still use the paper ballots. here in my city in  PA,  we was using actual  electronic voting machines. i have for years used them and never used paper. I know there are still not only cities and certain districts that still do but as well whole states.  you can vote online as well. Not sure if this is new this year or been out last year.  .

[Acey]

I did absentee ballot through the mail two weeks ago.

[C.R.O.M. - Shadaloo Lives!]

Romney's reaction to last night:

[Mach25]

mann i dont have that train of thought like that exe bro. no matter who the president was ever to be 4 years ago, Both candidates acknowledged The next president INHEIRITED  this outlandish debt Bush left. 2 charge cards worth and skated out. no way to fix a debt as large as was left in 4 years. period.

 Our dollar been worth less awhile ago. we are the biggest importer and not exporter. we buy far more than we sell. .  look at it as well like acey even put it, holidays we buy tremendously in goods overseas and domestic but of the stuff we buy is imported here by companies that export they businesses to then sell back to us.  we cant be so poor if you got people stranding in lines for the newest I gaget that runs 200 plus. We cant be so poor as well if we bank almost 3 to 400 million on holiday spending. somebody got some dang money!   and Black friday aint even here yet! ( got my christmas layaway put on so i am good ) SO if people so worried about the economy and want more money then i wanna see who all in line for the new cpu's, laptops, cellphones and merchandise and i will ask... where da heck do you work and ...can i get a job cause i need a Galaxy...badly. my 50 dollar touch screen sucks!

Obama and other presidents before him deployment of soldiers is nothing new.  presidents deploy troops to places that ask for our help in matters, our allies.  of people dont want us to be anywhere but here.  But again.. politics come into play. Its like a " I wash your hands and your wash mine" like deal in simple terms but its deeper than that. much.  War is Chess basically but played out with money and people mixed in with a ton of bad judgements and very very poor political control. I was once told when i was young..picking a president or political figure is like picking between the lesser of 2 evils.    you have to make your own call and thoughts on something like that.

i havent wrote a serious essay in a while so i just takin my time to say is what happens in the next 4 years is what will be not just his presidental legacy he leaves behind, but as well as our own because it takes everyone to make changes and differences and not just one person to shoulder the cause to fix what was broken and still broken but slowly trying to mend.  if congress and the representatives block ( yet again ) many of his proposals that very well could help out then you can blame your political leaders for not having your backs to at least try to come up with something better then what Obama or any president or political region leader laid out to help everyone and not just the rich.  4 more years Obama, let see what you can do if people got your back this time to make thing happen. Congrats.


Crom!

Makes sense. I like Lando's thinking, great summation of the situation here stateside. Obama may be the biggest spender in history, yet he is following the historical precedent of presidents before him. That's what Reagan (sick of hearing that name) did, that's what Roosevelt did and others. Basically, the economy is nothing but money changing hands. By the government acting as a consumer for the people, businessess can pay their workers, and their workers have enough money to spend and the consumer/producer process takes place. That's the original purpose of what a stimulus is supposed to do. That's what Roosevelt did by hiring all those workers to make the nation's roadways and other infrastructure - he put money in the hands of many people and those people had enough money to buy things, and so forth. Same with Reagan. That's what Obama was trying to do, but he faced opposition to his efforts to fix the economy.
Congress and the house is the mess here. The American Jobs Act, which would have rewarded companies for hiring American workers and paid for federal employees to fix the road system, was shot down by the legislature. There was no excuse for that, all they had to do is fix it up to the way they wanted it and send it back. Both sides would keep working on a bill until a compromise had been reached. But no, those in opposition to Obama just rejected it flat. So, the president is not the problem here, it's the legislature. They were even giving Washington fits, guys! So the tradition continues to this day.
Frankly, I think we ought to have a parliament here, not a Congress. Every law made will affect legislators personally. Every tax they make will be on their heads. Every campaign they want they will personally pay for, not the state. And if we don't like how they behave, vote them out just like that, with the people being the sword of Damocles.
 I think a monarchy is best, really.

[ExeLord]

it's called false patriotism. You guys ARE patriots, but you, not Obama, nor his team, nor those, who put Obama on his post of president(I wonder if you really think your votes decided it like they matter).
Anyone saw this:


Won the one who was needed with needed result, because all voting was BS. Nobody cares about those things at election because they aren't matter. I personally think both republicans and democrats have connections to same largest companies and banks and have no difference, but course they are declaring they'll follow(which is pretty much same, but in rougher and softer form). You may not agree with me on this and I'm to lazy to find those links between them.
And what this result ends as? This:

video is outdated, it's 2009 on video, but that spirit is rising now, spirit of separation. A lot of people don't want to be a part of USA anymore and difference by 1% at voting are they legitimate or not still shows how much separation american society have(if you think votes matter - it is, if not - someone pushing it to be like that, call it wall street lobby/influence by media, if it suits you). That is kinda part of ground I'm basing stuff I said above.
I'll name other one. Oil. USA wants to cut Europe out of oil supplies. In Europe oil comes from Iran and Russia. Iran is supporting Syria, Syria is now "enemy" of USA(USA wants to bring there democracy by hand of terrorists and Iran is on Syria's side there, some Iran's troops are helping Syria to not fall under terrorists' attack). Now there is embargo. That was one, here's second. Not long ago russian company Rosneft bought TNK-BP, which made it not only largest one, but also they gained access to BP technologies. For a moment you might think it's good for Russia and they will a lot of money, but... USA is trying to put Russia out of business here, they are pushing EU to buy as less russian oil as possible feeding EU with promises to be better oil supplier and frighten with potential sanctions. Some say it would be easy to attack Europe and colonize it with all those wars near it and being cut of non-USA oil, depending on it. I'll say - maybe. Also China have interest in european oil market.
There also is global problem - consumer society is dying. Like I said it's insane to spend so much money on halloween while there is such poverty in country. More and more people starting to realize craziness of stuff like that. And what is USA? USA is center of consumer society with constant propaganda of it, spreading it over world. Actions like "occupy wall street" will only rise in quantity and quality over time. People wants parts of or whole socialism. It's becoming popular over Europe, some ideas are popular in USA, Russia wants to return to it(at least regular people, not government) and China is socialistic. Of course it's nothing like what Obama & Co wants and will do.
There also a problem with democracy. There was parliamentary election in Lithuania. And what happened? Social and pro-russian parties made it and will make coalition. Pro-american president became furious, saying it's not legitimate, don't want to see this coalition and work with it. She tries her hardest to replay election. Now that's democratic. That only fuels hate for democracy, which is being delivered on winged missiles to Mid-East countries.
Again, not so long ago new generation of chinese politics entered a post. They are speaking about doubling GDP and hegemony. USA soon won't be first economy in world and it wouldn't be world with one pole, where USA dictates what to do to all other countries. Also China have conflict over islands with Japan, Japan is protected by USA and USA trying to interpose there.
While you guys saying it's noway to deal with debt left by Bush it's not exactly true. There is always option to say officially "all debs means nothing, dollars are nothing we will use new fair money - amero"(there was a suggestion to use "amero" as new american money even when Bush was president) that will automatically erase debt(it isn't debt to other countries, it's debt to Federal Reserve for printing money non-stop) and you'll start anew. While that's radical decision, OK, Obama didn't want to risk it and couldn't solve it other way, but why rising it to the sky? Just look at that number http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/ it's quadrupled since Bush. And where those money went? Mainly on army. "For the 2010 fiscal year, the president's base budget of the Department of spending on "overseas contingency operations" brings the sum to $663.84 billion." (c) Wikipedia. Total spending in 2010 was $683.7 billion, which by 3% more then in '09 and it grows, in '12 it's $1.030–$1.415 trillion, will be even more in '13.
To the list of problems you may add degradation of education, criminalization, rising xenophobic mood if what I said wasn't enough.

If you thought I was just arrogant, that's some pieces of info I'm basing my suggestions on. USA within this 4 years will be in deep-deep a$$. What Obama & Co will do with it? His focus is on saving leadership, hegemony of USA and he'll do it by means of crushing Mid-East, attacking Russia(through 5th column of russian "liberals", which now are crying that USAID stopped supplying them with money, which they partially spent on nazi), controlling Europe and fighting with China to prevent it's hegemony(what they doing in Mid-East is against chinese interests, those islands, etc.). It would be anything, but satisfying to regular americans. You will see and see in masses what Obama & Co is(I'm not saying Romney is better, he is worse to USA and every other country, maybe Ron Paul, but oh well), how hollow they are and by who's interests they are working(which isn't regular americans).

Guess I couldn't limit myself to few sentences here and leave intrigue it needed full-fledged essay.

[Mach25]

Finally! Exelord, GET ON MY BUDDY LIST!! I think when I have more time, we will have to talk about. :-)

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

the economy being fixed will take awhile, i dont think 20 years but it will take awhile cause we owe money to other countries we borrowed from. Like China for one. i can say from my talks with people i am around and have worked with most know its not going to be a easy fix. nothing of the magnitude we are in will be., but yes it can be fixed.  A few others had this insane belief that he would fix it  within his first 2 years and we all be swimming in money. doesnt work like that. Never has. Its funny as well cause in order to fix things we have to not just spend money but as well get it to spend it. They do it through taxes and other means. You have weapon dealers selling weapons to the very same people we are fighting against. thats a hard pill to swallow indeed. Something that bothered me was when that huge bank /lender whatever was given large sums of money to keep their business afloat and instead of paying there workers, they paid themselves. stupid idea all around.

 they gave themselves ridiculous bonuses to the higher execs saying it was to keep them aboard. but government wasn't buying that and they got seriously penalized, one dude even gave back his money while the others had to repay it back. from what i last read and heard from an insider analyst was that money is recovered from that group. see you can give money to people but doesnt mean they gonna have the best interests on saving the economy with it. I am all for keeping businesses homebound and stop letting them ship their business overseas and cutting the hard workers here out so they can have more money in their pockets, they forget about us who got them there to begin with. congress needs to get it together and stop being lazy, racial issues, group divided and actually come together to work with not just each other and the president but as well the people , they work for us.. the people.

I am as well all for voting. even if there is some conspiracy theories on the system and "peopole are selected not voted" type deal. i still will vote. why? because if you dont vote then you cant complain. thats what the voting process is there for wether some believe its a ruse or others believe its a will of the people right to decide who they want. other countries dont have that luxury that we have here. There is always good and bad in politics. I am sure everyone who was a kid and grew up wanted to become a politician didnt go in wanting to be a scourge of evil. . at least i hope not. i dont see Obama as this guy that wants to decimate the american economy.  whats  crazy was you had Romney who wanted to flat out take from everyone .  He lost cause there was people who saw right through him and his ridiculous ideals.  Kill off big bird? how dare you! Romney was for the rich, plain and simple. he didnt care about the middle class or the poor. he made that perfectly clear. He made those who voted choice an easier one if it was hard at one time.

  exelord you wrote an essay bro! welcome to Lando's Writers Guild of Essay's! 

[Mach25]

excellent discussion and points, gentlemen. at long last, substance is being spoken instead of mindless fluff and nonsense. lando, your point bout voting reminds me of the saying by an ancient writer (herodotus, i believe): 'those whe think themselves too smart to engage in politics will be punished by being ruled by those who are dumber.' indeed.

[ExeLord]

Valid point only when it works, when there's no way to check was your personal vote counted or not and for whom it means nothing. It's failure from the start. When you have 100 people voted for candidate it's a bit problematic, but you may ask everyone for whom they voted to check if end result was falsification. When small town with population 10000-25000 is voting the only way to check - re-vote, which fixes nothing. You may trust those, who counts votes, you may not, but you won't be able to check them. You may remember, on presidental election in Russia I posted for the site where you could check every single precinct, they've mounted 2-3 web-cameras on each. That prevented some falsification issues, that was as much transparent as this voting system gets, yet some parties said it was unfair, non-legitimate, yet they signed every protocol of election commissions, ie agreed to "unfair" results. USA also said that election in Russia was non-legitimate, while on election in USA you see flawed voting machines and no one cares(oh, that goddamn double standards).
To fix that you need to change the only thing - anonymity. It's said that anonymity is for protection of people, who votes, but now it works for protection of needed results. Yes, you signing before you getting ballot, but for what reason if you can't check was your vote counted right? Adding your name, surname on a ballot and ability to check your vote on government site, for example will ensure right results and you'll be able to sue commission for falsification if they changed it.
As it's not like that yet voting does nothing, but legitimates whatever result they want to have. There's much more people can do - protest against laws, or claim needed laws to be approved, make own parties, strikes, at least working to change mutual relations in society for more comfortable for everyone. And I assure they will be much more effective than voting, that'll matter.

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

IDK, i think my vote counts even if the party/person i voted for lost.  Who won doesnt matter to me at the highest degree, what does matter to me at that level is who won does things right and tries to do what they can, supposed to do and drives at it. Anyone can talk the talk but everyone isnt built for that walk.  What i think some of my friends and people i associate with that are knowledgeable  to a degree in political affairs dont realize that everything has a balance as well as an unbalance in politics and in society. In politics there is the "one hand washes the other" core belief that has existed when this country was flocked to ( invaded according to my indian heritage ) and started to begin forming laws. 

There are new things going on as exelord points out with falsification going on that some measures have been taken, but those things go on even when the cameras aren't on those individuals. i wouldnt mind a vote checking system if its on a can i check my own vote to make sure it went to the right party. but even if it comes back that i did, what about the millions of people who did as well and it still comes out the same? Anonymity is a right , something that people have fought for in courts and lawmaking. My coworker who voted for Romney doesnt need to know i voted for Obama unless i tell him i did.   but thats just my silly example.  Remember taking away one given right can affect a crapton of others. like domino's. people will use and exploit that as much as possible in a myriad of ways. SO always becareful what asking for and definetly keep a close look and attain good insight on how the fundemental lawmaking building blocks affect one another. Even Mugen has rights.

So if you wanna make sure your vote counted,  who you gonna actually trust to make sure it did?  our voting remember here in America is a privilege. Even if its as crooked as hell on some, and good on others. . But people as well forget that voting is just one of many ways to demonstrate your rights to changes in political goverment. you have to be active and participate in your local community political gatherings and events.
Something i will say that has really bothered me in both elections.. one phrase.. " is the USA ready for a Black President?" Well i guess the people have spoken..2 times. We are. Because if you think otherwise, then you have some real serious soul searching to do. Base your thoughts on voting for your Politicians based on their politics not their Ethnicticity. of people wont admit it openly that they are not ready for one but they surely dont have a choice now do they. I dont wanna start anything serious on that but i really had it up to sky with of that talk going on this race. and to make it even sadder, you even had some elected officials saying some pretty racy stuff that crossed the borderline.  So that to me says .


again good political discussions bros. 

Hail Crom!

[Mach25]

lando, lando, lando. boy, you've been holding out on me. you also Have native american ancestry just as i do. your opinions are spot on in the world of politics. bro, we've gotta talk way, way more. Finally, men i can converse with Man to man. hail crom indeed. shoot, if i had Skype, we'd have very much to talk about. the croms are a cool team Indeed.

[Kriven]

"You guys, everything sucks! Instead of trying to make it better, everyone should just sit back and whine about how awful it is!"

[Mach25]

hahaha! exactly, man! we should force people on the ballot that we choose, not some party! we should choose to unseat an ill-performing senator Or other official at any time like you can be terminated at any time from a job At A department store!  we should make it clear to capitol hill that whatever laws you pass, you're not Exempt. it's easy to spend others Money and pass laws for others, but let's see what gets passed when you yourself are on the line too! yeah, more significant consideration will be given thEn to laws passed, i guarantee it.

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

i feel what you saying mach. . we do have that , but ehhh. its called impeachment. senators and all political government  elected officials  do get held accountable for wrong doings , but we get to see and hear about those things way after they done committed the acts. Its hard to fire people if people dont go to their leaders to complain. but you cant complain if you dont really know until its brought to light. School elected officials are can and always outed because they too have a process and have meetings with actual community people attending most of those meetings to voice their concerns.

 A problem that has at some points will come to light be "is this person complaining legitimately or just complaining because they dont like the person?" Its like at my job, once your in the union the company can't just fire you cause they want to or cause they don't like you personally, they have to do things in steps and according to what guidelines that you and they do and dont follow to determine disciplinary actions. Immediate termination works different cause you would have to be doing some of the major no no's to get fired on spot. i can complain cause i actually vote and make it a note to know what i can about some events going on and i am a realist about it. . I have growing kids and for their future i def want to be knowledgable to a degree so i can make sound choices cause what effects them affects me and vice versa.

[Mach25]

lando bro, perhaps i was internal dialoguing as i spoke about this point. we're in total agreement, but i was speaking under the assumption that people kept an eye on elected officials and not just the latest movie, celebrity stuff, nfl and nba action, etc., things that do not truly matter. see, here's the thing: unless you keep an eye on people, they'll go astray. you could say i have somewhat of a legalist mindset. as citizens of america, we have a duty to watch over our governance, lest we give it away to others. have you read orwell's animal farm, lando? if you have or when you do, i'd like to discuss it at lengthwith you.

[LightFlare]

Americans spend more on Halloween then they did on the elections.

I won't comment on who I voted for...but that statement is just radically shocking!