Author Topic: How many of you are mostly self-taught MUGENites? (Read 2469 times)

Slivern · « **on:** May 14, 2012, 08:23:34 PM »

I just wanna know.

There is a great lack in the emphasis of CNS coding regarding how to be able to make special actions that include special moves and supers. All I know is how to make a fireball, and that for me it's not enough. I got bored one day and tried to mess around but the process...it's just..

SanjiSasuke · « **Reply #1 on:** May 14, 2012, 08:58:54 PM »

I haven't done much in coding yet, just some personal tweaks here and there. I mostly learned by reading tech talk that good coders say, and get the 'jist' of it. Other stuff (paletting, indexing, spriting in general, general MUGEN stuff) I just learned by breaking a few eggs, and learning from it. If I actually wanted to learn more, I would probably look it up, though.

Slivern · « **Reply #2 on:** May 14, 2012, 09:17:56 PM »

A few years ago, I've encountered tremendous problems trying to find anything at all. Some resources have disappeared from the web completely and the chances are high nobody or nowhere else has it.

This problem still persists for me today. I wish there was a group of people who can start a wiki that has an abundance of information on how to do certain things, but you've got to have the knowledge first.

That's how dire my situation is. If I knew a lot more about coding, I would try to make myself an asset to helping others get starting in making characters in Mugen. In other words...

NEEDS TO WORK FOR JOB EXPERIENCE; NEEDS JOB EXPERIENCE

"okay..."

Kung Fu Man · « **Reply #3 on:** May 14, 2012, 09:30:26 PM »

Quote

This problem still persists for me today

It's gotten REALLY damn bad today, and why I'm back from retirement. I was originally just going to dip my toe in, but couldn't find a major website properly hosting M.C.M., which is one of the core things I used back in the day.

As for learning, experimenting helps a lot, namely by popping open an existing character and stage and seeing just how they did certain aspects. Frankenstining code from one character into another also helps here to learn how each part works, and one of the best resources out there is an open source code snipped archive that not only explains how each part works, but shows advanced techniques that let you optimize your own work.

I-Skorp-I · « **Reply #4 on:** May 14, 2012, 09:52:14 PM »

Sauron is my very 1st W.I.P. and yes he has had me do this

from time to time or maybe even this

hell i was almost to the point were i was goin to scrap it but a good buddy of mine (demonkai) acted as a miracle and helped me threw the errors and now Saurons half way done

its just all bout askin around and watchin video tutorials and readin aceys written tutorial on this site..and youtube so yea just research and look around

Slivern · « **Reply #5 on:** May 14, 2012, 10:32:30 PM »

Yeah, I'm a little positive regarding YouTube tuts. In fact, one of those vids happen to be the same one where I learned how to make the fireball, so that's sweet.

Quote from: Kung Fu Man on May 14, 2012, 09:30:26 PM

Frankenstining code from one character into another also helps here to learn how each part works, and one of the best resources out there is an open source code snipped archive that not only explains how each part works, but shows advanced techniques that let you optimize your own work.

I could do that? Like, with other people's code? Just snip a part and put it in? Because back in the day, other fellow MUGENites were pretty strict about how someone uses their code. It's not like they own the copyrighted MUGEN character.

I guess some of those people are all gone now.

Tha Lando ( Le CROM ) · « **Reply #6 on:** May 14, 2012, 10:45:15 PM »

Silvern , there is sooo many people using snippets of other people codes its crazy. its funny ntho how even a snippet can cause a flambay in mugen. cause 12 people can even have the same idea for a code and not even use the snippet. but mostly i think today you have

of people who have opensource material to be used for whatever purpose.

Slivern · « **Reply #7 on:** May 15, 2012, 12:16:00 AM »

Oh gosh, thank goodness. I remember back then there was a flame war over MUGEN characters being sprite swaps of things we wanted in MUGEN.At least they tried but other than that...

We still gotta do something if we want to maintain the lifespan of this community. I brought the CNS thing up because some people such as me can be confused on where to start other than the easy stuff that we can easily understand. We should like, explain the basics of coding not just...well, the basic parts, but also the cool parts where we make supers, strikers, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure stands (A MUST HAVE TECHNIQUE WITH A LOT OF POTENTIAL), and also integrating special effects into characters that come from their own games.

If I have time, maybe I'll try to Frankenstein as much code as I can. So yeah, first tip we can give to the newb creator: Frankenstein everybody's code, no matter who they are!

As for CMD files, I would say the same thing, just to a lesser extent, but then again, it's directly connected to the CNS files. I also must say that regarding JJBA characters, there's a lot to cover on the use of more than one CNS file when creating a MUGEN character.

Excursion · « **Reply #8 on:** May 15, 2012, 12:36:21 AM »

I started my own character first using the sprite replacement method (using kfm) and then moved on to learning to code once I completed an entire sprite-set for a character (Cutman). I took the MUGEN docs and printed them. They printed onto 50 or so pages if I remember right and I put it into a binder and separated it by sections with dividers. As I got to a point in where I needed to reference coding or for just an explanation, I referenced the binder, I observed the behavior within the CNS file using the debug version of winmugen and looked into the coding of a lot of other people's creations to see what they used and why.

Trolling the forums as well as asking questions (specifically at the Guild, Infantry, RS, and a lot of other older places like WarmachineX, BMT, MUGENChina and MUGEN History) and specific creators that had a great reputation of helping out such as Ruben, Beximus, N64 Mario, Warmachine X and many, many others got me proficient enough to understand it well enough to put something together.

I can't stress how important Fighter Factory was to me to figure that machine out and utilize it. Yes, it was frustrating working on something for so long, then to have FF give you an unrecoverable error where you had to close then reopen the character and realize you forgot to save it hours ago, but those experiences taught me valuable lessons I still utilize to this day. I don't mean to romanticize my experience in self teaching myself this stuff because I lost many a nights sleep but I wouldn't trade the experience of it, friends I made along the way (yea, online but still..) and the pure satisfaction that I actually got that thing to do what I wanted it to do after hours of trials and tribulations.

~Hale "R@CE" Caesar~ · « **Reply #9 on:** May 15, 2012, 12:56:15 AM »

of my techniques that I used to patch all of my edited characters, I learned by trial and error and watching Bovery (Black Chaos) videos. And also messing around with coding using Fighter Factory.... Like "Ohhh I wonder what does this do?" and stuff like that.

No one would help me like I wanted except people like Scar, Sabaki, Acey , Kong and Laspacho <<<<<

Guys if it wasn't for Laspacho or Fighter Factory, there would be NO PATCHES AT ALL!!!!!!!! Crazy huh? Remember that Lei-Lei edit Laspacho from years ago? (Insider)

.....

I saw many people do there own things when doing mvc conversions and I had to learn

..... They would do things and I would try to emulate them and little by little I start noticing the difference in what a good character was and what wasn't.... What was solid and what wasn't... And that's when I said I have to do something about this...

Velocities and damage dampering...and vars.... oh lets not forget explods and helpers.... Where would I be without those....hahahaha

Kung Fu Man · « **Reply #10 on:** May 15, 2012, 01:34:34 AM »

Slivern: To explain I didn't mean grab people's coding and release it in your own work. I meant try to figure out how it works by implanting it in a character you're working on and adapting it so you can learn and become self-reliant for what you want to do. Most people won't flip out over snippets being used (especially if a comment is pointing out the source), but you do get the occasional fellow that flips their wig over it.

3rdstring · « **Reply #11 on:** June 10, 2012, 03:08:58 AM »

well i am from watching

of videos and messing around with mugen for years now my coding is not that strong but making animations or editing to make the char entirley different i know how to do

Slivern · « **Reply #12 on:** June 13, 2012, 03:18:29 AM »

Quote from: 3rdstring on June 10, 2012, 03:08:58 AM

well i am from watching of videos and messing around with mugen for years now my coding is not that strong but making animations or editing to make the char entirley different i know how to do

Yeah that's pretty much my forte. At least we can do something right?

I-Skorp-I · « **Reply #13 on:** June 13, 2012, 03:22:59 AM »

Quote from: Slivern on June 13, 2012, 03:18:29 AM

Yeah that's pretty much my forte. At least we can do something right?

Basically what he said im KINDA self taught with

of help i can tell you that...i can say i watched almost every single mugen tutorial there is to watch when it comes to makin a char..its just im a lil bit more slower at it at the moment

...

so with that said thats why Sauron is still stuck in a loop hole intill i can figure out what the deal is with him

Afterthought · « **Reply #14 on:** June 13, 2012, 12:41:57 PM »

I can say right now, for the books, I am NOT self-taught. As a matter of fact, the huge problem I have right now about Searchman is not knowing anything about coding. I'm worried once I finish the sprites I won't be able to code him. I can't even set up a Shoryuken, and I just learned how to set up a Hadouken.

Tha Lando ( Le CROM ) · « **Reply #15 on:** June 13, 2012, 01:11:43 PM »

hmmm wow , actually the only couple things i am "self Taught" with is music track fusioning and some graphic arts stuff. pretty much

of learning comes from finding good teachers . My sprite teachers are Manic, Nestor and Li Kun and I always inspired by stuff from Batazrro, Aiduzzi, felo,C.v.s The Abstract, Diepod and Seanatly, coding wise its Demonkai, a lil from Infinite & Race on stuff when i will need to ask about somethin hopefully they could show me, stage making its Wolviesam and Mugen Ninja as my cool teachers and inspired by stuff from

of stage creators like exshadow and all that do those gorgeous stages i hope to wanna make myself like they all do and animation is my good cool friend Rage. after your shown things ,

of your development will come with like said Trial and error and of course like i am told on spriting...practice , practice and more practice.

, i am always practicing and now can turn snk sprites into close to cvs style and keep porportions .

there are

of tutorials out here to show you things but there arent enough to show you every lil thing you wanna know or need to. thats when hookin up with someone to teach you that knows is where you can get your skills to blossom. i taught myself mostly with music fusioning and a very tiny lil GA stuff by messing around with Audacity and Gimp tools in the programs. a sorta what if i do this and see if will do that, kinda thing. i was gien some stuff from a cool bro on creating a stage but the gust of it now using Cybaster Stage Creation Tool and messing with rips myself to get looks i like or want with piecing things together. still got a huge long way to go but its the act of keeping interested and it working that makes me press on to get better at what i am doing. i think tho.. we all could use some cool teachers. I plan to try and make mines all proud.

there should be a site just called Mugen School 101... they do nothing but teach you every single trick in the book to make mugen content. like a one stop Hub for just that only.

. like all the creators who are seasoned and have

of experience teach you various tricks of the trade. ehhh can only dream of that.

.ALEXZIQ. · « **Reply #16 on:** June 13, 2012, 04:58:08 PM »

I am self taught, but as many of the veterens coders told me was to read the docs.

I always felt that was a cold answer, but it can help. It at least tells you what is what in the hitdefs, as well as tell you what makes things go up,down, right left, ect.

Also read the notes in the cns of Kung Fu man. It tells a lot of what does what in the lines of code

Looking at code helps too, but it can also hurt. I struggled with throws, and slams forever because of a lot of complex nonsense in many characters. After I realized I didnt need a lot of the junk it was much easier, but had to learn it the hard way.

I recommend if you look at code look at Zvitors, Aceys, mine, Angelecks.

Watch out for Pots, or Kong stuff that is very over the top. That stuff can be hard to follow

Cyanide · « **Reply #17 on:** June 14, 2012, 04:26:39 AM »

Nobody can truly "teach" you mugen code. Most attacks are different, people think differently, people have different ideas about how to do things.

What those of us who help out do, is more get you moving towards the correct answer rather than giving it to you. If you can simply paste something in that we give you, you'll be back next time you're stuck rather than going "This is the process needed to work out an attack, i shall follow it" and piece something together.

Mostly self taught. I learned by stripping down a portuguese creators character. Since then everything has been "I am going to make this work and i'm going to try and revise the attack until it bloody well does!"

And feel free to post in guilds help section, i frequent there more than here and someone will be willing to help if you show you're willing to learn.

Tha Lando ( Le CROM ) · « **Reply #18 on:** June 14, 2012, 10:13:10 AM »

Quote from: Cyanide on June 14, 2012, 04:26:39 AM

Nobody can truly "teach" you mugen code. Most attacks are different, people think differently, people have different ideas about how to do things.

very true too, the learnings i got was docs, advice to just get the basics, then do most the stuff you said as well. plus

is indeed trial and error. i remember i opened up a character just to see its coding.....yeah... it was like the matrix to me!

, so i had to cool my heels and slow down Lando...sloooww down. one thing at a time.

so i focused on getting better at spriting first, and now more confident with it ( always needs more practice to get better) and rolling into making stages. I will be back to learning coding in a month so its back to hardknocks! but i have a much better understanding now, plus i rather learn it messing around a bit instead of the copy paste method cause it dont always work out sometimes. Once i got the basics down pack then the real fun begins!

i am always a eager and patient learner so i def will check around for learnings on more stuff. The Guild always have stuff there to check out too, and i be there sometimes as well so definetly i will skulk around to see what goodies i can find .

Acey · « **Reply #19 on:** June 14, 2012, 10:47:12 AM »

It seems to me that Mugen itself provides very good Mugen 101 documents for anyone who takes the time to read them. Outside of that I think the community does a really good job teaching each other anything that needs to be taught, either by request or because of need.

Tha Lando ( Le CROM ) · « **Reply #20 on:** June 14, 2012, 11:39:00 AM »

Quote from: Acey on June 14, 2012, 10:47:12 AM

It seems to me that Mugen itself provides very good Mugen 101 documents for anyone who takes the time to read them. Outside of that I think the community does a really good job teaching each other anything that needs to be taught, either by request or because of need.

and true , we do.

that idea was actually given to me by a cool friend at work that i turned on to mugen. he draws

of comic book stuff. very good too. i told him about mugen and he asked if there was a hub for just that one thing only. so he kinda formulated how it would work but ehhh his dream. i guess he got tired of asking around or going on search missions.

told him the best way i am learning so hopefully it helps. cant laugh at my bro like that cause when i first got into mugen years ago, thats what i thought as well, but now its worked out very well. The Teacher and pupil method has work and is working for me , the rest after getting the knowledge and insight is up to me to proactice and get good at it. so i for one am glad we have good people around that do take time to tell, show, give sound advice in mugen and Bor making. Respects to all that do.

DivineWolf · « **Reply #21 on:** June 14, 2012, 01:51:58 PM »

I'm self taught. In order to learn code, it does indeed help to look over pre-existing chars code. Kung Fu Man is great for learning the basics and once you learn the basics, other things begin to fall into place. You just have to have patience. I like how my brother refered to coding when I first started... He said it was like "Trying to decipher the Matrix" Lol. It is very confusing at first, but it grows on you as time progresses. I suggest looking over Kung Fu Man's code and mess around with it to your heart's content.

YoungSamurai5 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 14, 2012, 04:01:53 PM »

i agree with didvine wolf and all you other guys. i started off looking at kfm's cns as well and reading all of that. then i start doing small edits of a lot of characters until i fgured out some stuff.

it took me forever to learn how to make grabs.

im ot gona lie it took me some time when i first started how to work the hit def until i started messing with it. like the people who posted before me. it better to just mess around with kfm and others cns then to try and get someone to "teach" you code. pretty much trial and error until you get it the way you want it.

DEMONKAI · « **Reply #23 on:** June 14, 2012, 08:33:48 PM »

For me i started by building my character from scratch and watching Bovery and Uroz videos over and over again until i got it right.

But These dudes here helped me in various ways to get started or to progress: REU (rip), Scar, TGM (the snes TMNT TF char creator), Vyn, Sabaki, Fallen angel, Cyanide, Pots, shinra358 & REZA (the very first MVC style creator). from understanding how hyper FX work to how to spot bug errors on the screen all those guys got the ball rolling for me. MFG i would stop into also for code tips. Cyanide would usually always make an effort to answer my question if i had one.

That, plus helping myself by constantly experimenting with codes and playing around with triggers from other good characters that i figured would work for a effect im trying to make. I always zoned in on Reza's chars, Pots, @ndroides and Vyns. thats just my opinion but characters like that or quality is what i used to zone in on a lot at the time.

Always Understand that you can always learn something new with coding or find a better way to code something. I can have a my own way to code a hadouken and you can have yours. one creators way maybe a bit much than the other and you may not even need all that just to code a special move like that. Theres a ton of creators out there. study characters that you would understand the best and it take it from there. For example for hit pauses i wanted to find a better solution to that so i studied one of Mr infinites characters for the simular situation i had. Yeh Reza got me started on MVC style combos but I liked Infinites hit pauses better for that style. In a different situation i studied how maybe Mr Buckus or Rajjaa did a code for their character that helped my situation too. It depends.

The resources are endless. not everyone is willing to help but you have to get used to experimenting through trial and error on your own also to get even better at it and want to get better. Pretty much like Cyanide said in so many words a person can only push you in the right direction so that you understand coding better.

....Trial and error are your best friends at the end of the day....

YoungSamurai5 · « **Reply #24 on:** June 14, 2012, 09:15:43 PM »

haha couldnt have said it better myself kai. i aslo did learn many things from bovery23's tutorials as well. i still refer people to his vids.

fer619 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 14, 2012, 09:56:30 PM »

i'm self-taught, i had to read through the official docs and look through many tutorials

@YoungSamurai5: well bovery23 (aka BC) is planning to make brand new tutorials soon, so keep your eyes open for when they are published...

YoungSamurai5 · « **Reply #26 on:** June 14, 2012, 10:03:47 PM »

yes i almost forgot his mugen name

. he is at mfg right? oh and i will keep my eyes peeled for them

fer619 · « **Reply #27 on:** June 14, 2012, 10:12:35 PM »

yes (and here too) but he also has his own forum called Mugen Evolution, you can check it out by clicking the Mugen Evolution bar in my sig

YoungSamurai5 · « **Reply #28 on:** June 14, 2012, 10:29:12 PM »

thank you i forgot he had a forum

3rdstring · « **Reply #29 on:** June 15, 2012, 09:29:21 AM »

Quote from: Slivern on June 13, 2012, 03:18:29 AM

Yeah that's pretty much my forte. At least we can do something right?

true

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Author Topic: How many of you are mostly self-taught MUGENites? (Read 2469 times)

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