Logan (wolverine)

[angeljerry]

I like to share this wip, the only thing i did was to take the wolverine character from the infinity mugen team and remake the sprites, here is the result. the charactere ist almost done but I tinhk before i can released I need the permision of the creator of this wolverine and the creator of Kon-el (cause i used kon el legs for the sprites), right?

Stand pose





intro





Win pose

[ATiC3]

Wait a second... Did you have permission from the creator to do that?

[Arkady]

to do what? release? if he want to make sprites, you can't stop him, and i say go for it, it helps to have practice and experience to sprite, but if he want to release the character then yes he'll need permission from Seth Zankuthen & Titan Goku for kon-el, and whoever you see in the def. file as the author for wolverine, might be an issue because of the coding of the character, but i'm sure they won't be too troubled by it, after all this is just a sprite edit,
but yes always get permission before releasing characters due the hard work every creator goes through

[animaraz]

These permits are always headaches! I had problems when relase Hydra Ichi and froze completely the possible relase of Sunfire Why? is assumed that Mugen it should be a platform to share and have fun. But neither is shared or funny.

Esos permisos siempre dan dolores de cabeza!!! Tuve problemas cuando lance a Hidra Ichi y congelaron totalmente el posible lanzamiento de Sunfire ¿Por que? Se supone que el mugen deberia ser una plataforma para compartir y divertirnos. Pero ni se comparte ni se divierte.

[Acey]

I believe Mugen should be a joint project and shared, but not everyone thinks that way and it is rude to impose our beliefs on others. Traditionally we have seen creators get upset because their sprites or code was repurposed and reused without any reference to the original work, or even notifying the original creator. Also there are some people who will go and just change one small thing and call it a whole new character, ignoring all the effort made by the original creator.

With this in mind we strongly encourage all creators who with use make something dirived from someone elses work to go get permission first.

As for your Wolverine sprites, please continue the character. He looks great. As for the Kon-El sprites, you can contact the creators at www.scruffydragon.com

[HyperVoiceActing]

Personally I don't like the stance. It doesn't really feel like the character.

[Arkady]

ah well put, no wonder your the admin

p.s. on a side note why is there another need for a wolverine jeez there a so many characters out there without any creators 

i see one more ryu edit and it's punishing time

[.Batzarro.]

Pretty much when it comes right down to it. Edit what you'd like for single edits only without asking around for permission. That stands for right here, some people do have a problem with that.

However, since this is in the WIP section too, you cannot edit someone else's work that isn't open source without their permission to make a full character.

That being said, IMO I don't think you'll be getting permission to use these sprites for your character. Not saying don't try, just letting you know you probably won't get it. One thing you could try though, is finding Slotman who made a Kon-El also that might work for this too. I think there's a good chance he'll let you use his stuff if you can get in contact with him.

[volzzilla]

i tried asking slotman about finishing vision once. we talked a little about whatever then when i asked, he got quiet and didn't answer follow up messages.

in short, odds of getting permission there probably worse. though he's been out of mugen now for awhile and someone did edit his kingpin without worrying about whatever from him.

[B-5]

His stance looks a little stiff. But i see what your trying to do.

[Superjoker]

Just give credit man

you cant stop ppl from ''borrowing'' work, or just keep it private, imagine how many awesome chars are out there we will never know about

[elee0031]

Did everyone call up the original creators from the Marvel vs. Capcom and all the vs game out there? Cause Cyclops, Ryu and all of the other characters were rips from the original game and recoded with new stuff. So I can't imagine someone calling up the Capcom company asking to use a trademark character and a  creators design for a FREE independent gamers on-line community mugen universe game. I'd be too busy laughing at the caller on the other end of the line.

Don't get me wrong, I think you should be able to modify and branch off of people's work to create something new and totally unique, and sometimes different. The rules need to apply when someone doesn't finish up their work and leave it open for anyone else to pick it up. It's true that it would be disrespectful to only change 1 or 2 things and re-release a character as your own. Then there are those people who just up and leave the mugen universe and you won't be able to contact them in regards to using piece's of their work. Sooo   

[B-5]

Thats so true

[elee0031]

Forgot to add that the Logan winning pose should've stopped with him and his hands on his hip. Everything after with his arms up in the air and the big or whatever just looks really weird. Cause Logan doesn't really laugh - he's serious the majority of the time. Correct me if I'm wrong!

[Vault-tec Rep Høröúßøí]

Forgot to add that the Logan winning pose should've stopped with him and his hands on his hip. Everything after with his arms up in the air and the big or whatever just looks really weird. Cause Logan doesn't really laugh - he's serious the majority of the time. Correct me if I'm wrong!

actually, it could be a war cry type of deal.... or him just going blood crazy 

[DARKTALBAIN]

Did everyone call up the original creators from the Marvel vs. Capcom and all the vs game out there? Cause Cyclops, Ryu and all of the other characters were rips from the original game and recoded with new stuff. So I can't imagine someone calling up the Capcom company asking to use a trademark character and a  creators design for a FREE independent gamers on-line community mugen universe game. I'd be too busy laughing at the caller on the other end of the line.

Don't get me wrong, I think you should be able to modify and branch off of people's work to create something new and totally unique, and sometimes different. The rules need to apply when someone doesn't finish up their work and leave it open for anyone else to pick it up. It's true that it would be disrespectful to only change 1 or 2 things and re-release a character as your own. Then there are those people who just up and leave the mugen universe and you won't be able to contact them in regards to using piece's of their work. Sooo   

This is the age old discussion that can never be won. Yes we all borrow from Capcom, SNK, or another company.

But yet the individual creator feels they are above Capcom & their stuff shouldn't be used, since they didn't get paid to make it & their sprites were a lot of hard work for just the love of all this.

What's right or wrong, I couldn't even answer anymore 

[.Batzarro.]

Wait, I remember a long while back there was a topic about Capcom/SNK and the like saying they didn't mind Mugen chars being made or their work being edited as they saw it as a form of fan art. As long as no profit was being made, of course.

So, with that being said, technically, everyone got the green light to use sprite rips and edit them as they please. Now, if you wanna edit the work of these companies, feel free. Since you're taking sprites from creators that spent hours upon hours making these out of their free time and editing them, tell me, where's your permission from them.?

Either deal with the rules that are applied through out the community when it comes to getting permission if needed or move on. That simple, really.

[Arkady]

This is the age old discussion that can never be won. Yes we all borrow from Capcom, SNK, or another company.

then we are no better than the people we complain about when they ask if the need or try to get permission, i think it is sad that there is so many creators that cannot release characters due to the peer pressure of these sites (as wonderful as they are) the collective influence is bias on plagiarism, but we rip off the original godfathers of spriting makers of capcom, and snk (hether they were payed or not)
i think we have forgotten why we are even editing/playing/enjoying mugen
the answer is creativity not credit or ownership, or whinging if your released/unreleased character had borrowed sprites/coding from it,
i think we are all guilty of breaking the rules @ some point, and i think we have no right to judge others on how they represent there hard work,
mugen rocks, this is all i have to say about it

[Kojunho]

I'm gonna apologize to you now but you can't use Kon-El's sprites in your WIP. Lots of scratchwork and many hours went into it and TG and Seth would like for you to not use their work. I can however give you the bases and you can instead edit those yourselves, which were a mix between Cody and Charlie's legs. Hopefully this doesn't discourage you.

[.Batzarro.]

then we are no better than the people we complain about when they ask if the need or try to get permission, i think it is sad that there is so many creators that cannot release characters due to the peer pressure of these sites (as wonderful as they are) the collective influence is bias on plagiarism, but we rip off the original godfathers of spriting makers of capcom, and snk (hether they were payed or not)
i think we have forgotten why we are even editing/playing/enjoying mugen
the answer is creativity not credit or ownership, or whinging if your released/unreleased character had borrowed sprites/coding from it,
i think we are all guilty of breaking the rules @ some point, and i think we have no right to judge others on how they represent there hard work,
mugen rocks, this is all i have to say about it

You must have skipped my previous post, huh.? Everyone feels differently about this, that's why there are rules. Just like with anything else. If someone is cool with sharing and letting others make unoriginal characters with all the hard work they put into making their character unique, that's fine. If someone spent all this time working on something they wanted and made them truly unique and decide not to let their work be open source, then respect the work. It's really that simple.

The people that are usually against this are the people that just play and collect "rare mugenz", that's it. When it comes to spriters especially, people that put in hours upon hours to make something stand out in a character, they tend to understand this ten times over. If you have a problem following these simple rules, then don't create, period. It's not like these people can't find the same bases and re-make whatever they originally wanted to take.

[Arkady]

You must have skipped my previous post, huh.? Everyone feels differently about this, that's why there are rules. Just like with anything else. If someone is cool with sharing and letting others make unoriginal characters with all the hard work they put into making their character unique, that's fine. If someone spent all this time working on something they wanted and made them truly unique and decide not to let their work be open source, then respect the work. It's really that simple.

The people that are usually against this are the people that just play and collect "rare mugenz", that's it. When it comes to spriters especially, people that put in hours upon hours to make something stand out in a character, they tend to understand this ten times over. If you have a problem following these simple rules, then don't create, period. It's not like these people can't find the same bases and re-make whatever they originally wanted to take.

i have no problem with the rulez, i'm not against them, i'm just not happy with the lack of sharing, because there is too much red tape preventing creators to continue their work as creative as they can be, and if that is someone who gets upset everytime there is something that looks like their character, or has one snipit of coding from their own, then i just suggest not releasing a character, if they want it their own, if they don't want it in anyone eles's game, if they don't assume some knob will try and make a version/update better than theirs, as demmeaning as it sounds,then don't release it, no one owns these characters, but marvel, dc, snk capcom ...whatever(probably all disney now ) but i do solemly agree with what your saying, this is what should be doing = everyone starting from scratch, and sharing ideas, but not everyone has the time to built every nock and cranny, but geez doesn't it get de-motovating when you can't even borrow a pair of jeans jeez
but in saying all that respect is the key here and there is a lot of that missing
and i do respect your work guys
hope this has not detered your view on what i had previously meant, i'm just seeing this from both sides, (being a rookie creator aswell)

[amarillo002]

i have no problem with the rulez, i'm not against them, i'm just not happy with the lack of sharing, because there is too much red tape preventing creators to continue their work as creative as they can be, and if that is someone who gets upset everytime there is something that looks like their character, or has one snipit of coding from their own, then i just suggest not releasing a character, if they want it their own, if they don't want it in anyone eles's game, if they don't assume some knob will try and make a version/update better than theirs, as demmeaning as it sounds,then don't release it, no one owns these characters, but marvel, dc, snk capcom ...whatever(probably all disney now ) but i do solemly agree with what your saying, this is what should be doing = everyone starting from scratch, and sharing ideas, but not everyone has the time to built every nock and cranny, but geez doesn't it get de-motovating when you can't even borrow a pair of jeans jeez
but in saying all that respect is the key here and there is a lot of that missing
and i do respect your work guys
hope this has not detered your view on what i had previously meant, i'm just seeing this from both sides, (being a rookie creator aswell)

look... we can all creat from the capcom/snk/mortal kombat/whatever... because they aprove the use of they work as a fan art... but when you are trying to use someones work you need to have their permission...

just like i do with my Kilowog WIP... i work from capcom's Zangief sprites but i had permission to get ideas of some shades form rhino's sprites made by batzarro...

im a rookie spriter too but these are very simple rules to follow...
and almost everyone is open to help you improve your work
just keep trying

[ZVitor]

noobs and rules i know that felling....

if they don't assume some knob will try and make a version/update better than theirs,

problem is opposite, newbs making bads updates, if some1 really want to improve my chars lets talk about that, and if everyone release a minor update to everychar, how we will know the best/last version? and about respect too, how u tink we feel when we see a nude emma frost edit? (no, its not a joke )
...
but its not a update, u are making a new char using sprites from others creators, and i tink u are using anvil (or loganir leaked) head too, follow rules here is optional, if u follow rules you can post in any mugen forum around and get help to improve this char, and trust me, this is a hard work and feedback help a lot in process, if u not follow rules u can post/show your chars in fews underground forums, and host him in warehouses webpages, so respect others effort and your skills will improve with community help.
...
if u want a good example, just look ex-team spoilres members, they started like mugen pirates, and now all (or almost) respect this rules.

[.Batzarro.]

You said there's a lot of red tape preventing creators from creating.? That can't possibly be true though with all these great creations we've seen in the past 2-3 years (70% Zvitor's work XD). You're talking about more or less the people that wanna take short cuts. If someone really has the desire and will to make something, they'll find a way. Not just wait to see who's work they can rip off.

It pretty much now comes down to either you get the rules from the get go or you probably never really will. If you become a dedicated spriter though, you will eventually get this.

When it comes to my work personally, I make a lot of single edits. Pretty much all my single edits are open source as long as they ask is all. Anything put into a full character isn't open source as I want my stuff to be as unique as possible. Sometimes I do make exceptions to help fellow creators that I know could use it. Every spriter/coder does have their own view on the matter though.

if u want a good example, just look ex-team spoilres members, they started like mugen pirates, and now all (or almost) respect this rules.

Not a good example actually. >.< That was a bum rap we got from the beginning for a reason I'll never really get. We never released characters using other people's work (unless it was Open Source stuff used). I'll admit there were a few private edits passed within the team but NEVER released or given out to anyone else. Aside from that though, just people trying to discredit us at the time, I suppose.

Though, Ex-Mugen Pirate does have a good ring to it. XD

[elee0031]

Are we still talking about this? Wow... Um.....

! at the nude Emma Frost! Technically it counts as a new character from the neck down cause the whole body has to be resprited and coded, etc, etc. It'll have the same moves and animation only with the nude sprites. Now this would porbably fall under FAN ART as nude characters are an acquired taste.

My suggestion is to go after a street fighter character with jeans like um maybe Gile and just color it all black or something. There's also people from KOF like Billy Kane i think his name is. Anyway you can look into that and just use them if you don't get your permission.

[warecus]

cody's jail pants can be colored blue and add a semi stripe or stitching to the side idk

[DARKTALBAIN]

Or just make him privately for yourself. It's that simple.

Who made that head anyway? Is it Loganir's?

[warecus]

capcom made a few heads from his ending in cota

[The Anvil]

Yeah, i made those wolverine heads....

I don't really want people using them at this time, because i plan on using them in the future...

[Playing Enemy]

Just curious, are the legs that were used for Super Boy from another character from an actual game, or were they sprited from scratch? If they were just used from another character, you'd really just need to ask Capcom to use them or whatever actual game company made them, right? Even though I know no one does that cause this is mugen, I'm just saying. If they are from scratch though, definitely try and get permission if you can, cause this Logan looks pretty sweet like that. 

[The Anvil]

Just curious, are the legs that were used for Super Boy from another character from an actual game, or were they sprited from scratch? If they were just used from another character, you'd really just need to ask Capcom to use them or whatever actual game company made them, right? Even though I know no one does that cause this is mugen, I'm just saying. If they are from scratch though, definitely try and get permission if you can, cause this Logan looks pretty sweet like that. 

Yeah, i made those wolverine heads....

I don't really want people using them at this time, because i plan on using them in the future...

[Alexziq]

You might as well lock the topic he officially elected to dump the WIP.

Another illegal WIP successfully defeated!  


Post Merge: May 24, 2010, 08:54:17 AM

Yeah, i made those wolverine heads....

I don't really want people using them at this time, because i plan on using them in the future...

No offense but wasn't your 1st release of maskless Wolverine using someone elses unauthorized base? As I remember Sonic X was one of the only forums that allowed it's release. 

[The Anvil]

Me and AC ended up getting permission.

And it wasn't sprites, it was codes, a little different.

[Alexziq]

Me and AC ended up getting permission.

And it wasn't sprites, it was codes, a little different.

Could you elaborate?

As a coder, it's not from my perspective, or many in the community.

Sprites (unless from scratch, and origional material) cant be copywritten, but code can be.

[DARKTALBAIN]

I will chime in here....

Using another creator's code or another creator's sprites. It's all the same. You are still using something by another creator without permission. Hence by the official/unofficial rules of mugen, You are not allowed to do that.

Just to clear things up

[The Anvil]

Either way, i got permission. There's no point trying to make out that i'm a thief because you want to see this character made.

As i said, right now i'm not giving anyone permission to use my wolverine.

[Acey]

Either way, i got permission. There's no point trying to make out that i'm a thief because you want to see this character made.

As i said, right now i'm not giving anyone permission to use my wolverine.

When I coded Maskless Wolverine the code was 100% Kongs and mine, so no permission needed from anything there. Whatever was released before I got involved it none of my business.

As for the topic at hand, Anvil has said his piece.

[Alexziq]

1st off I am not talking about your version Acey, this was long b4 you were even involved.

Anyway I edited this post because I couldn't word it without it coming off rude. I was simply trying to point out the trials of newb creators, and that it could have turned out much differant for Anvil had he not got permission. I was not insinuating he was a thief, thats never been my style, plenty of people can vouch for me on that.


2nd I dont care about the heads, and getting this character made. I'm not a Wolvie fan.

My point was about sprite editing existing material isnt differant than using a code base without permission.
 
I will say I am really surprised at the defensiveness here, since I was simply making a point, and not being combative. I am a tad surprised we couldn't have a friendly chat about this.

[DARKTALBAIN]

I was just simply making a statement about the so called " rules " of mugen. Using code, sprites, backgrounds, whatever without permission. It's all the same in the eyes of those creators that call people " thieves "

I do not run around the community calling people thieves. I do feel that this is just a hobby & have better things to do with my life than calling people thieves all day long.

I may point pout if someone used something. But then I leave it at that.

[The Anvil]

I was just simply making a statement about the so called " rules " of mugen. Using code, sprites, backgrounds, whatever without permission. It's all the same in the eyes of those creators that call people " thieves "

I do not run around the community calling people thieves. I do feel that this is just a hobby & have better things to do with my life than calling people thieves all day long.

I may point pout if someone used something. But then I leave it at that.

Agreed, but what if your not totally finished with something? or you have future use of your own stuff?

[Acey]

Agreed, but what if your not totally finished with something? or you have future use of your own stuff?

What I do is give most anyone permission who asks, although 95% of the people never get further than an animation or two. It's sad, I'd like to see more stuff completed. Every once and a while there will be someone who comes along that you can collaborate with as well, you just have to make sure they're not part of that 95%.

Just my two cents. Either way, your work is your wishes.

[DARKTALBAIN]

Agreed, but what if your not totally finished with something? or you have future use of your own stuff?

The head is already in a released character that everyone knows you made.

Those heads you made were based on capcom's design. So it's not totally original. Am I correct in that statement?

Even if you granted this guy permission to use your heads, I'm almost positive that his Logan would be something completely different than what you & ANC are working on. It makes sense what he is doing with the head. It's not like he is trying to just paste the head on Ryu or something. In light of all this, I would give this guy a chance to see what/if he can do something.

But......

I do agree with Acey, it is your work & you can do as you wish with it.

[Darkmanx_429]

"Sigh.." this is where every thread about that age old conversation about mugen usually ends...one thing I don't agree with..another possible great mugen creator has been discouraged before he even got started..(not directed at a mean way at any specific person(s) )and I do agree with his comments about the lack of "sharing" and also about everyone forgetting why mugen was fun in the 1st place. Not to say that I don't respect creators hardwork (I work countless hours on spriting myself.)and I am not saying it's right to take others hardwork, make minor edits and calling it your own, I just think if every forum took the all that energy that they use trying to monopolize, control, privatise, or making themselves stand out or feel special about our "free hobby" and help the community establish actual creators (from all skill levels), we would all benefit from the great work that would be created in the end. Creation in mugen shouldn't be like a "members only" club...that is why we STILL haven't had a decent character creation tutorial for everyone to enjoy....

[Arkady]

HERE HERE!!!! finally a like wise mind who doesn't dribble the old topic of "oh i spent all my free time and hard at work"
solemn, sworn, and helpful, may all creators/readers think likewise
thank you