Flares Fight - The Darkflare Show Tangent

[LightFlare]

Gotta love this guy...
 

[Space (DCL)]

Is that a typical MFG thread? Just asking because I don't really go there at all...

[Darkflare]

No, but even Guild isn't excempted from "Special" people.

[LightFlare]

Is that a typical MFG thread? Just asking because I don't really go there at all...

Do yourself a favor and continue that habit, bro. Some really cool people hang there, but overall its douchbag central. I came across this bunghole that was so obnoxious I made a stage about him. Lol!

Trust me. Curiosity killed the cat...

(click to show/hide)

with an Uzi

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at point blank range

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to the face

[Space (DCL)]

 
Well...alright i guess

[Macaulyn97]

Nah, not alright. LightFlare just made a stage about Darkflare because he wanted turmoil. He argued that he doesn't like Dark's way of criticizing crappy MUGEN things, but Darkflare never actually did anything to anyone, and Light is taking matters from other people personally, while even these people doesn't.

[LightFlare]

Nah, not alright. LightFlare just made a stage about Darkflare because he wanted turmoil. He argued that he doesn't like Dark's way of criticizing crappy MUGEN things, but Darkflare never actually did anything to anyone, and Light is taking matters from other people personally, while even these people doesn't.

Now I remember you...

Gotta love this guy...
 

The above comment wasn't directed at you. If that offended you. Sorry. And I don't want turmoil. And once again, you don't know whw you're talking about. Every person I saw Darkflare critique DID take it personally. But its cool. No harm done.

[Macaulyn97]

I didn't take it for my self, but I remembered you since Mugen Free For All, so I was just making sure DCL knows it also.

[LightFlare]

I get it. You informing him of my past actions. Heh...that's cool, homie.

@Darkflare  I have to admit the title of your videos are appropriate.  But why the videos. I know in some cases, people don't listen to feedback. But it seems like your exploiting people rather than providing constrictive criticism. You're probably to busy looking for something I created to answer my question.

 Heh...

[Darkflare]

Do yourself a favor and continue that habit, bro. Some really cool people hang there, but overall its douchbag central. I came across this bunghole that was so obnoxious I made a stage about him. Lol!

I'm right here, you know.

That said, are you ever going to fix that stage? I did give you the resources to represent it properly.

@Darkflare  I have to admit the title of your videos are appropriate.  But why the videos. I know in some cases, people don't listen to feedback. But it seems like your exploiting people rather than providing constrictive criticism. You're probably to busy looking for something I created to answer my question.

It only seems that way because you're not looking at the whole picture. Why should I tell you when I can SHOW you?
There's two reasons, I do this.
1. To show the author where they screwed up and fix it.
2. If said author is too stubborn or arrogant to realize his mistake, the video instead is for exposing people that blindly praise it despite having a rather critical error in it.

[LightFlare]

I'm right here, you know.

Lol I know where you are...

That said, are you ever going to fix that stage? I did give you the resources to represent it properly.

I guess I have to know more about you to understand the resources you mentioned. I only know what I read. But yea...I did update it. No colliding hadokens though... heh

It only seems that way because you're not looking at the whole picture. Why should I tell you when I can SHOW you?
There's two reasons, I do this.
1. To show the author where they screwed up and fix it.
2. If said author is too stubborn or arrogant to realize his mistake, the video instead is for exposing people that blindly praise it despite having a rather critical error in it.

I understand that some people are stubborn. But if they don't listen, why go threw all that. I know , I know. [Sarcasm]Its our responsibility to help each other become better creator[/sarcasm] But really...videos?! And boy did you really dig into Legendary Terry. You had to go back and make more vids. Dang!

But, that's you bro. A lot of people hate you, but not me. I think that was the misconception. But its not you. I guess its what you represent that bothers me. I admit that you have a reason for doing the vids, but I can't get past the condescending attitude involved.  I guess you realize that, which is why you don't seem to be taking it personal.

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

 

Hmmm quick note tho. to myself ...and speaking out loud mind you.

When showing a video of the mistakes that can, could and or should be corrected its also as well very good to show the code method to fix such things as well especially to new creators or even creators who don't know how to fix the problem. If don't know the code method then cool , vid still can be useful but do so in good taste so the information given will be taken seriously.  If want a speedy update fix that goes much further along and actually helps more to pass on the knowledge than..gonna put this out there for any people who does this ( just sarcastic remark vids that just shows errors). Thats been done a bajillion times since people started uploading mugen video's on youtube years ago. . People who create or not have a right to pay those types no mind even tho the content shows the flaws to be fixed. Its how you do it that helps those who look forward to feedback with detail and professionalism. If we are going to pass on the mugen creating knowledge its always better to do it the right way than a very bad taste sorta way.

end note:

gonna have to file this on my notepad and log away in a file. 

[LightFlare]

 

Lando, you sir are very wise. I couldn't have said it better myself. I want to add to what you said...but it's not necessary.

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

thank you kindly Lightflare sir. its the old age i tell ya. I was told that when you get grey hair either you get one of 2 things... shorter and angry ( especially if you were tall )  or humble with wisdom  and its a right of passage of manhood and womanhood to get them. now i dont feel so bad.

Well anything can be added to what i said . Its really simple knowledge and looking at things in various perspectives but the most prominent one is the one that truly speaks for itself. Good solid feedback can garner better results from people mentally and artistically within their ability to absorb the knowledge and apply it . Plus its always good to be a humble person. Make cool friends that way too.

(click to show/hide)

trust me bro...Lando can go humble to full blown pissed and retarded too. . My insanity is my refuge to saneness. 

[LightFlare]

Humble and wisdom...yep I am more humble and wise these days.

[Darkflare]

I understand that some people are stubborn. But if they don't listen, why go threw all that. I know , I know. [Sarcasm]Its our responsibility to help each other become better creator[/sarcasm] But really...videos?! And boy did you really dig into Legendary Terry. You had to go back and make more vids. Dang!

But, that's you bro. A lot of people hate you, but not me. I think that was the misconception. But its not you. I guess its what you represent that bothers me. I admit that you have a reason for doing the vids, but I can't get past the condescending attitude involved.  I guess you realize that, which is why you don't seem to be taking it personal.

DemonKai had it easy compared to Alexlexus, I've teared up Alexlexus' Gouken for years because of his attitude and because he clearly never learned. Honestly, I did more on Legendary Terry because of Kai's attitude as well. Not to mention that I can't understand how you can give so much excessive invicibility, make almost every move safe and give him overpowered supers and call it ok.

When showing a video of the mistakes that can, could and or should be corrected its also as well very good to show the code method to fix such things as well especially to new creators or even creators who don't know how to fix the problem. If don't know the code method then cool , vid still can be useful but do so in good taste so the information given will be taken seriously.  If want a speedy update fix that goes much further along and actually helps more to pass on the knowledge than..gonna put this out there for any people who does this ( just sarcastic remark vids that just shows errors). Thats been done a bajillion times since people started uploading mugen video's on youtube years ago. . People who create or not have a right to pay those types no mind even tho the content shows the flaws to be fixed. Its how you do it that helps those who look forward to feedback with detail and professionalism. If we are going to pass on the mugen creating knowledge its always better to do it the right way than a very bad taste sorta way.

It's not a bad idea. Unfortunately, not everyone is so well versed in coding, but yet are capable of noticing that something's wrong. I like to pretend that the author knows his own character enough to know at least where the problem lies and if they have no idea how to fix it to ask around for help.

[LightFlare]

Man, I loved that Gouken! Well, until it got some updates back in 2011. Then it was kinda crappy. I'm sticking with Infinites Gouken now. Yea.  I know Kai ran his mouth, but he seem aggressive till you became aggressive about your point. Then he fell into your trap and lost his cool. Came blame him too much for that. I guess he was going for the whole "Terry the Unbeatable Hero" theme.

Lol

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

purposely going after people cause of their lets say "attitude' doesn't help the case. People make what they want and of course how they want... take ...Nightmare broly or Nightmare geese. . I have both. . way overpowered beyond human recognition. But funny and cool at the same time., Its personal downloader preference if they like them and as well a creator choice to make them. . I dont think people are trying to make characters to be on same level of playing field with the same companies we "borrow" their hard work created from. Its to give our own spin on them. in a lot of cases over some years those characters we fan rented are even better in our vision.  But alas.... to do it well is definitely an aim and to achieve it takes some hard work.

You take a personal quest to go after people is indeed not a nice thing....really its not. You also as well with anyone who thinks the same mindset that pretending a person knows his character is totally different than them knowing the full range and various techniques of coding to nail it on first drop. I have seen the best authors around update their stuff time and time again. Plus you cannot always use the exact same formula to everything you create cause there may be different things you are trying to do that will require a different code method.
 
 There will be things you have to change up may come along that your coding formula may not be able to work effectively as before. Trial and Error. this is with anyone creating. But once you nail it , then you nail it. but when going into a new area and trying stuff never done or new to yourself now you got to find ways to make that work. Coding is a much deeper than the casual person may know and not everyone will know the right way to make it work.  Demonkai did ask around and asked some of the great people who know they stuff. If he kept something in its because either he liked it and was fun or he had to learn how to fix it  or just didnt know the right method. Its not that he didnt care.

 You assume that from gate as you stated, you pretend they know. It doesn't take much to give proper good on point feedback that helps rather than say or give demeaning remarks and attitude with it. thats not effective and gives off a bad taste and so an argument will begin. you know that and as much anyone does. . Remember too , there are many authors who are doing same to different things that may need help or they do what they want and how they want. Professionalism  comes with experience and time and a lot more knowledge to aquire the on point skill to produce the work right as visioned .

 Kai learned a lot on his own and as well asked around to those that would help and give him sound advice and instruction. That is what any new creator route will try to do. To come at them for trying and demand perfection out of the gate.....is a very wrong thing to do. This is and always will be a hobbyist format.  No one is perfect at their hobby upon learning, but will someday learn to be great at it.

[Space (DCL)]

DEM ESSAYS!!! LANDO STRIKES AGAIN XD

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

DEM ESSAYS!!! LANDO STRIKES AGAIN XD

aww man i did write another one again! dang it!.

[Darkflare]

Man, I loved that Gouken! Well, until it got some updates back in 2011. Then it was kinda crappy. I'm sticking with Infinites Gouken now.

Alex's Gouken was always bad though.

purposely going after people cause of their lets say "attitude' doesn't help the case.

Perhaps, but it exposes the true nature of them to others.

People make what they want and of course how they want... take ...Nightmare broly or Nightmare geese. . I have both. . way overpowered beyond human recognition. But funny and cool at the same time., Its personal downloader preference if they like them and as well a creator choice to make them.

Doesn't mean they're well made.

I dont think people are trying to make characters to be on same level of playing field with the same companies we "borrow" their hard work created from. Its to give our own spin on them. in a lot of cases over some years those characters we fan rented are even better in our vision.  But alas.... to do it well is definitely an aim and to achieve it takes some hard work.

Nothing wrong with that, but I expect the basics to be done right at least while working on your fan-vision.

You take a personal quest to go after people is indeed not a nice thing....really its not. You also as well with anyone who thinks the same mindset that pretending a person knows his character is totally different than them knowing the full range and various techniques of coding to nail it on first drop. I have seen the best authors around update their stuff time and time again. Plus you cannot always use the exact same formula to everything you create cause there may be different things you are trying to do that will require a different code method.

Given the fact that THEY coded the character or did some work around it(in the case of edits) I would think they are at least aware which code is the one giving the problem in the feedback. If a move is done wrong, I expect them to at least know where in their code that particular move is coded in so they can tackle it efficiently.

I'm not asking them to be pro uber great at coding, I'm asking them to know their character enough to know what code they used and how it works.
 

There will be things you have to change up may come along that your coding formula may not be able to work effectively as before. Trial and Error. this is with anyone creating. But once you nail it , then you nail it. but when going into a new area and trying stuff never done or new to yourself now you got to find ways to make that work. Coding is a much deeper than the casual person may know and not everyone will know the right way to make it work.

I'm aware of this, but this isn't what I'm getting at.

Demonkai did ask around and asked some of the great people who know they stuff. If he kept something in its because either he liked it and was fun or he had to learn how to fix it  or just didnt know the right method. Its not that he didnt care.

Let him make his boss Terry, but at least get stuff right. 70% lvl 1 supers and safe on everything moves is not the way to go even by boss standards.

You assume that from gate as you stated, you pretend they know. It doesn't take much to give proper good on point feedback that helps rather than say or give demeaning remarks and attitude with it. thats not effective and gives off a bad taste and so an argument will begin. you know that and as much anyone does. . Remember too , there are many authors who are doing same to different things that may need help or they do what they want and how they want. Professionalism  comes with experience and time and a lot more knowledge to aquire the on point skill to produce the work right as visioned .

I don't see any problem with the way I give feedback. I showed what was wrong and didn't make any comments unless provoked. I prefer to show than to tell. If they need more information regarding what I'm showing them all they have to do is ask for it and I'll tell them what's wrong and what I did to reproduce it.

If I show you something and the first reaction you do is attack me(and sometimes even accuse me of altering the character) what the hell am I supposed to think? From my experience, authors who attack people that give feedback instead of say asking to elaborate more on it are self-centered and arrogant to realize their mistakes and only seek praise in their work. If I'm showing you something, I expect you to STOP, THINK and ASK about it. If you can't do this, I suggest looking for another hobby.

Kai learned a lot on his own and as well asked around to those that would help and give him sound advice and instruction. That is what any new creator route will try to do. To come at them for trying and demand perfection out of the gate.....is a very wrong thing to do. This is and always will be a hobbyist format.  No one is perfect at their hobby upon learning, but will someday learn to be great at it.

Yea and everyone wants to defend Kai because "it's his first creation" or "he's new at this". Again, you're misunderstanding me. I'm not expecting perfection, I'm expecting the basic crap done right. That's it. BASICS. If you can't get the BASICS right, then you've already screwed up.


P.S: If you want to be taken seriously, you really ought to quit putting in the middle of your sentences.

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

i put " ," cause i am laughing. I have insanity problems. forgive me .... see can't help it.

See when i read you say "I expect certain things" speech , it sounds like those that create are suppose to adhere to your criteria of a creation. What you personally may expect may not be what is produced. It all takes time to learn even if you are an experienced coder, spriter, stage maker and anything dealing with creating content.  With me, something doesn't have to be perfectly made to be enjoyed. Cause nothing is perfect. But yes getting basics is a key. basic kicks , punches, jumps, dashes, hurt sprites , walk and those alike, yes def have to be on point. Once you traverse to specials and supers and ex moves, counters  and those things made up on the fly.. those can be tricky. hell combo chaining can be a pain and depending on what you are trying to go for ...pain in da arse.

Nightmare Broly and Nightmare Geese i highly doubt were designed to be well made or accurate with balance to anything. That's the fun in them and why people may download them. Heck some people actually like overpowered characters. Why.. but they do. Can't fault them for what they personally like.

Kai has updated his Terry and to what he found out and to where he wants. thats all that can be asked of by any creator.

its not that you make videos...nahh that not the issue, its the text and title of what you say about said work that hits people. many video's have been done long before you have come along and made them. Its how they are presented to the author. But if you not coming in their thread to show them where they made a mistake but just plant a title that may be offensive ( cause they are and can be)and showcase it off as they are doing a crappy job in your view of the mistakes and not bring to the creator to fix , and lets say, they not even aware of the video and find from a different source, it can come off badly. Like i said before in another talk, if someone is gonna help...actually help. Not try to demean cause then it looks personal  and taken personal.  Its all about how you do it DF. People have a right to get upset if came at a certain way that is not productive to their growing more in mugen creating.

You are actually pretty good at showing things that could help the creators who trying to do well and get things right but alas if you want to be taken seriously then do it seriously  and have a little more..humbleness with it. Now i must go into my cave and meditate. 

[Space (DCL)]

I don't wanna say that this thread will have to be monitored...

I'll just keep reading what's going on and then make a decision...

 

[Darkflare]

I would normally try to break it down again, but I think we'll just go back and forth repeating each other at this point. I'll just say this:

A. The basics don't just include basic attacks and so. They also include basic "rules". Every fighting game out there no matter how different their mechanics are, follow a set of gameplay "rules" for balance reasons. For example, if a move is safe on block there has to be something that justifies it, such as a longer than usual startup. If a move has a lot of invicibility at startup, it most likely has a lot of recovery frames. Things like these are also necessary to keep in mind and more often than not missing how important these basics are tend to be the primary reason why a character tends to be bad.

B. If you're going for a boss type, at least be reasonable in your "rulebending". Bosses may do more damage and tend to have more priority in their moves, but they still follow other basic rules such as recovery and unsafe moves (Yes, even BOSSES have unsafe moves). If nothing else, at least try to make it fun. Making it flashy and ridiculously overpowered while taking nearly no skill to win with isn't "fun".


I think I can summarize this with a winquote from SF3's Gill

"My methods may seem harsh in contrast to my true intentions."

[Rage]

I would normally try to break it down again, but I think we'll just go back and forth repeating each other at this point. I'll just say this:

A. The basics don't just include basic attacks and so. They also include basic "rules". Every fighting game out there no matter how different their mechanics are, follow a set of gameplay "rules" for balance reasons. For example, if a move is safe on block there has to be something that justifies it, such as a longer than usual startup. If a move has a lot of invicibility at startup, it most likely has a lot of recovery frames. Things like these are also necessary to keep in mind and more often than not missing how important these basics are tend to be the primary reason why a character tends to be bad.

B. If you're going for a boss type, at least be reasonable in your "rulebending". Bosses may do more damage and tend to have more priority in their moves, but they still follow other basic rules such as recovery and unsafe moves (Yes, even BOSSES have unsafe moves). If nothing else, at least try to make it fun. Making it flashy and ridiculously overpowered while taking nearly no skill to win with isn't "fun".


I think I can summarize this with a winquote from SF3's Gill

These basics you speak of can you create a list of them and post it in to tutorial section. I think that wwould be awesome.

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

* peeks head out of my cave and reads*

Ah yes yes yes! good good good! This is what i am talking about!  for the good point on fighting game aesthetics and this works very much for full game products as well anyone wanting to create a semblance of balance in their characters. Both points are great.

this is mostly only for B to me in my own personal view, not everyones:
Keep in mind as well DF man, this is mugen and the interpretation of such balance only takes form when the creations are supposed to be created with it, but in a format where these rules are made ( better term ..Freedom) to be broken which is also a maybe small reason why Mugen has thrived and many of the things these broken characters have in them with flash and flair have been turned around and used with some sort of balance especially in code theory. Mugen itself is broken and unbalanced because every one does not follow the said fighting game rules. In an engine with total freedom to create what you want and various coders and spriters doing just that, full pure balance will only truly happen if all are created with it.

I used to wonder about that myself eons ago and what would mugen be like if this was a mandatory thing to follow. I tho am utilizing this foundation of rules only in a full game aspect cause for me, i think thats where these rules apply strictly. Mugen openly does not have to adhere to them as die-hard. Which is why we have some wild out crazy stuff made back then and some even now.

what Rage said as well. defifinitely good stuff.

Very well done DF. Kudos.    ok back to my Crom Cave and further meditating. peace.

[Rage]

* peeks head out of my cave and reads*

Ah yes yes yes! good good good! This is what i am talking about!  for the good point on fighting game aesthetics and this works very much for full game products as well anyone wanting to create a semblance of balance in their characters. Both points are great.

this is mostly only for B to me in my own personal view, not everyones:
Keep in mind as well DF man, this is mugen and the interpretation of such balance only takes form when the creations are supposed to be created with it, but in a format where these rules are made ( better term ..Freedom) to be broken which is also a maybe small reason why Mugen has thrived and many of the things these broken characters have in them with flash and flair have been turned around and used with some sort of balance especially in code theory. Mugen itself is broken and unbalanced because every one does not follow the said fighting game rules. In an engine with total freedom to create what you want and various coders and spriters doing just that, full pure balance will only truly happen if all are created with it.

I used to wonder about that myself eons ago and what would mugen be like if this was a mandatory thing to follow. I tho am utilizing this foundation of rules only in a full game aspect cause for me, i think thats where these rules apply strictly. Mugen openly does not have to adhere to them as die-hard. Which is why we have some wild out crazy stuff made back then and some even now.

what Rage said as well. defifinitely good stuff.

Very well done DF. Kudos.    ok back to my Crom Cave and further meditating. peace.

[Darkflare]

These basics you speak of can you create a list of them and post it in to tutorial section. I think that wwould be awesome.

There's actually quite a lot of things to consider. Most of it is common sense though. I could probably do it while being asked what topic to talk about next.

stuff

Even the actual games themselves never reach true balance and they're already adhering to the same system. Mugen has it worse because many systems are made and some systems are clearly better than other systems. I've already accepted that Mugen being balanced is impossible.

[Rage]

There's actually quite a lot of things to consider. Most of it is common sense though. I could probably do it while being asked what topic to talk about next.

how many people possess this?

Even the actual games themselves never reach true balance and they're already adhering to the same system. Mugen has it worse because many systems are made and some systems are clearly better than other systems. I've already accepted that Mugen being balanced is impossible.

Finally some truth which blows away many of yours, mine, and many others comments 

[LightFlare]

Some good points made here. OK, Alex's  Gouken was fun. I didn't say it was a coding masterpiece. Its kinda like Lando mentioned with the Geese and Broly. They had obvious flaws, but they were just fun to use.

You're pretty skilled at pushing buttons without making it obvious to everyone. So when people retaliate, it looks like they blew a fuse. While you seemingly remain humble. Its pretty good actually.

Darkflare, you're gonna be you. And I'm gonna be me. I'm sure were not the first ones to bust your balls on your feedback methods. And we won't be the last. You're a jerk, bro. No getting around it.   

[Space (DCL)]

Darkflare, you're gonna be you. And I'm gonna be me. I'm sure were not the first ones to bust your balls on your feedback methods. And we won't be the last. You're a jerk, bro. No getting around it.   

You should watch what you say, and I'm not trying to defend DarkFlare. I simply don't tolerate users insulting each other, whether it's meant to be a joke or not. I don't care about "Welcome to the Internet". Verbal immaturity, even at the slightest, will usually get out of hand and if it does then I'll have no choice but to do something about it. This goes for everyone...

I'm not trying to start an unnecessary fight, because it's a waste of time and only makes fools of us. I just want to prevent it from happening.

[O Ilusionista]

I can't believe people are still wasting time blaming DF about his method of to give feedback...

[Macaulyn97]

I can't believe people are still wasting time blaming DF about his method of to give feedback...

And I can't believe it became a separated topic.

[CosmicToxin]

And I can't believe it became a separated topic.

I can't believe its not butter! i couldn't help myself

[Tha Lando ( Le CROM )]

I can't believe its not butter!  <_<|...|i couldn't help myself

[LightFlare]

You should watch what you say, and I'm not trying to defend DarkFlare. I simply don't tolerate users insulting each other, whether it's meant to be a joke or not. I don't care about "Welcome to the Internet". Verbal immaturity, even at the slightest, will usually get out of hand and if it does then I'll have no choice but to do something about it. This goes for everyone...

I'm not trying to start an unnecessary fight, because it's a waste of time and only makes fools of us. I just want to prevent it from happening.

No prob.

I can't believe people are still wasting time blaming DF about his method of to give feedback...

  Meh...

And I can't believe it became a separated topic.

Come on. Don't act so surprised...Lol

I can't believe its not butter!  <_<|...|i couldn't help myself

Man I was just thinking that...Lol

Yo Lando. Looks like someone was being observant when they named the topic. I think its cool. Maybe our favorite critic will stop by and bless us with his wonderful skills of observation!

[Macaulyn97]

I can't believe its not butter!  <_<|...|i couldn't help myself

Come on. Don't act so surprised...Lol

Well, I am. Who did this?

[LightFlare]

I don't know, but its friggin sweet! Maybe it was DCL? I guess there's no confusion as to where I got my name from , huh?

 

[Space (DCL)]

Funny, I didn't do anything actually...
I only said I would do something if it REALLY gets out of hand...this was someone else's doing...

[LightFlare]

Funny, I didn't do anything actually...
I only said I would do something if it REALLY gets out of hand...this was someone else's doing...

 

Well...who did it?

Whatever. I get to post and be random. That 's reward enough!