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Author Topic: EoH is bad? Ways to fix it?  (Read 824 times)

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Offline MegamanEXE

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EoH is bad? Ways to fix it?
« on: October 19, 2015, 01:30:41 AM »
I don't understand why the EoH template is so bad according to most people. Can someone explain why it's not great and ways to fix those problems?
I am just curious. (I already have my own EOH template so it's okay.)
« Last Edit: October 19, 2015, 01:53:45 AM by MegamanEXE »



Offline [PRB] | TheFclass97

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Re: EoH is bad? Ways to fix it?
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2015, 07:25:27 AM »
I don't understand why the EoH template is so bad according to most people. Can someone explain why it's not great and ways to fix those problems?
I am just curious. (I already have my own EOH template so it's okay.)

Never actually used the template... But from what I have heard, it's usually the people who use it and that givss bad rep for it... Either that and/ormbalance and bug issues... But that's all only from what I heard...


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Offline MegamanEXE

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Re: EoH is bad? Ways to fix it?
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2015, 10:04:54 AM »
I usually hear it's because of the capcom characters on IMT and the reputation of it being usually used by uneducated (at least for mugen) creators between the ages of 5 - 14 who literally just spriteswap the template rather than make their own original hypers or edits to the actual template themselves. But  I rarely ever hear why the actual template itself is bad. The only bug I heard is that it has a spammy AI.

Offline Jelux Da Casual

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Re: EoH is bad? Ways to fix it?
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2015, 10:48:06 AM »
I usually hear it's because of the capcom characters on IMT and the reputation of it being usually used by uneducated (at least for mugen) creators between the ages of 5 - 14 who literally just spriteswap the template rather than make their own original hypers or edits to the actual template themselves. But  I rarely ever hear why the actual template itself is bad. The only bug I heard is that it has a spammy AI.

At this point, that's all you're going to hear. The flavor of the day every day at other forums is badmouthing IMT.
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Offline MegamanEXE

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Re: EoH is bad? Ways to fix it?
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2015, 06:46:48 PM »
I haven't heard of any IMT badmouthing for a year now not counting on Youtube. So no, they're not being badmouthed so much.

All and all, I use another  MVC template for MUGEN characters solely based on MVC1 so it shouldn't really matter.

Offline Hyakaju

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Re: EoH is bad? Ways to fix it?
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2015, 07:17:49 PM »
At this point, that's all you're going to hear. The flavor of the day every day at other forums is badmouthing IMT.

You're delusional.
I usually hear it's because of the capcom characters on IMT and the reputation of it being usually used by uneducated (at least for mugen)

creators between the ages of 5 - 14 who literally just spriteswap the template rather than make their own original hypers or edits to the

actual template themselves. But  I rarely ever hear why the actual template itself is bad. The only bug I heard is that it has a spammy AI.

If the moderators will let my post be seen, I'll explain some of the problems to you.

1. It's a template, but barely any of the coding has any notes. Aside from the stuff they copy/pasted from Phantom of the Server, there are barely any code blocks that leave comments for creators that are attempting to create using the template. In addition, they completely removed the information left by Elecbyte in the constants at the beginning of the .cns.

2. The .sff is horrible. Instead of using Kung Fu Man, the character has a single black standing sprite and the required gethits. The .air doesn't display any clsn standard on attacks, basic/system movement, or even the gethits (This part is the worst). Newer creators that use this template are simply left to imagine what the EOH standard (which doesn't exist btw) for clsns are since the air doesn't display any clsns outside of anim 200.

3. There are no examples of how special attacks should be implemented. All of the specials (and I'm sure the hypers) are essentially the same.
    If a user had interest in adding attacks similar to Jin Kazama's rising uppercut or Evil Ryu's dive kick, they have no example other than their own imagination. Counter attacks and projectile attacks are also missing here. Because of this, you'll notice that most (if not all) EOH chars in the EOH full game that use the EOH template play far differently from each other (The template character has an infinite with LP btw).

Marvel Super Heroes, X-Men Children of the Atom, X-Men vs Street Fighter, and Marvel vs Capcom 2 all have some standards for when velocities are applied and when they're over. The template has no information of how and where velocities should be implemented.

4. The template has tons of syntax errors... that Mugen ignores for whatever reason. "Sprpriority" is misspelled in many instances, making it useless.

There is no uniformity.

TL ; DR version : The template has a huge problem with consistency, explaining how and why things work, and a lack of effort to help users understand how to make their character play in a manner similar to EOH (Although this in itself would be pretty difficult since EOH has no consistent gameplay style).
Movement feels sluggish. 
The hitdefs have poor definition (No yaccel, getpower, givepower).
The sounds in the .snd are low quality (Especially the hitsounds. Holy hell...).
The FX come from several sources and clash.
The EOH template was created by an incredibly inexperienced coder. 

Offline Cyanide

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Re: EoH is bad? Ways to fix it?
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2015, 08:28:10 PM »
Not every character is the same. Whatever is in the EoH template you should NOT just plug in sprites and add some supers. That's not how a template is meant to work. Too many people do this and it makes for things that feel very samey.

If you want to use a template it is best if you use one you made yourself so you can change what needs changing. You should always alter the basics to fit the character. This includes comboing (this is actually broken in the EoH template and should be fixed)

Too many people don't personalise what they made after using a template and you get a character that feels rushed and without personality. If your character is heavy he should feel heavy and hit heavy. Not feel the same as cyclops. If your character is light and fast he should feel light and fast. Not feel like cyclops. If your character is in the middle ground like gambit, he should feel like gambit, not feel like cyclops. That's kinda the issue with the template. Nobody customises enough.

Offline MegamanEXE

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Re: EoH is bad? Ways to fix it?
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2015, 08:37:10 PM »
Thanks for the explanation, Cyanide. But like I said before, I decided to go for another template. It has no character base since it's just KFM with a MVC feel but I will remember this when I continue my character. And the KFM character is crazy fast and I haven't created a character yet that was meant to be middle or slow due to all of them being small nimble creatures so yeah.

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