Why you closed it , you wanted me here

[Sasuke-kun]

This should be handled IN PRIVATE i believe...that will avoid any unnecessary flames that could happen

It should be on that way but...

He'll lose all the attention am I wrong?

Since a long time ago before the leaks...
We have been through the same path over and over again...

What's the point to continue it?

Any of the sides isn't going to fall apart or give up so...
We are going to keep fighting a war with no end.

I know I'm not the right person to say this because I haven't created Mugen stuff.
But I'm going to say it anyway.

Is just a damn game!!!

I know you expend part of your free time making sprites, coding, testing and all that but...

If you or any other creator doesn't like the way how everything works on the net...
1) You can quit anytime you want
2) Or make your stuff private and be extremely careful with it.

If our teams can't come to an agreement or a peacefuly way to solve this problem...
Then it would be better for our mind health to never cross paths again.

All of this useless war seems like a sick obsession to me.

[Buyog]

2)Outsider: Unfortunately sending me over to Marvel Outsider to check anything is unfair since you had me kicked out of there too.

I can't speak for Lederaztlan, but I'm pretty sure that banning you was *his* decision, not Magus's.

5)Flat out Magus lies, Infinity did not distribute any of your characters

Then how did Bulldog get them?

You talk about minions of Infinity (which is a forum that allows everyone to believe as they may) where obviously there are minions of Magus who support your demeaning acts. That is why people disrespect you.

Is it so hard to believe that people might support him because he has valid points, even if he makes them in a caustic way?

Maybe if you had ever turned into a real, respectable individual you would have been told about the leaks as they occurred. Instead you took every opportunity to spit in our faces and blame every little thing that happened on Infinity.

Okay, this one hurts... as far as I can remember, I have *never* spit in anyone's face here. Fine, don't tell Magus... but why not tell me?    And yet we didn't find out about the leaks until Bulldog, a good several months after the fact.

[Buyog]

Look, I don't condone leaking, but at the same time, Magus shouldn't be blaming us for every little thing with little or no proof.

I'll grant you that he thinks this forum is the source of all evil in the MUGEN world (I don't  :). I don't know you... but were you here when Bulldog leaked all of our private, unfinished chars? Which he got from the admin forum here? The only reason that all of our unfinished crap is floating around YouTube and Rapidshare right now is because of that one action.

[Inky(Zangief Guy)]

Buyog, everyone, I respect you all(except Oohwhap). So...can we please do one thing and stop this nonsense? Buyog.....I mainly understand what you say, but I'm not choosing sides, no matter how much Mustkillroy tells me Magus doesn't deserve respect, or no matter how much Magus gets mad at Infinity.

[Scar]

As for buyog and the rest that you just said approve of making this little feud personal.

Why come alone if they support you so much, tell buyog and the rest of the team to come hear and lets sort this whole mess out.

I'm trying to keep up in this, but frankly, 3 kids, grad school, and working two jobs, PLUS trying to actually *create* something for MUGEN instead of just fighting about it... well, honestly I don't have the time or the energy.  :

If you dont want your stuff out in the open then dont go making a website about it and then start complaining when leechers take your sh*t.

No, he's complaining about people taking and sharing UNFINISHED STUFF THAT WE HAVEN'T EVEN RELEASED! Why is this so hard to understand? Take our public stuff and share it all you want; I realize that we're not able to stop that. But the thing that hurts us here is that someone (maybe more than one someone, I don't know) betrayed our confidence and shared our private, unfinished work with you guys. It got into Bulldog's hands, and now people on YouTube are trading for "ultra rare MUGEN charz" like my nowhere-near-finished Parasite (which it *really* pains me to see people using, because that old version is a load of crap). THAT'S why Magus calls you thieves... I don't prefer that term, but you can't deny that you were sharing things you shouldn't have had in the first place.

I thank you for coming over Buyog but you dont get where we are coming from.

Yes your stuff got leaked by someone on your end, that is the cold hard FACT.

Also yes we did get ahold of them, but we never distributed them on our site.

Can you ever say that you saw us post around and say we got So and So stuff come and get it, never.

You know that and we know that.

Now yes, an ex member of ours did go out of bounds and leak your stuff and ours.

But what I dont get from Magus point of view is why he calls us thieves.

He makes it sound like we went over to your site and stole all your creations.

Now come on, you sound like a reasonable adult here.

The fact is that someone that is part of your team is leaking out these betas.

And just like Chaotic said, its part of human nature to feel curious.

Now because someone leaks out something of yours to the masses why all of a sudden does that become INFINITY's fault.

We get the full brunt of it because of our warehousing past.

Its like we are the scapegoat for the screw ups at your forum.

Now all in all I would simply say is if Magus wants a damn apology then fine.

I will apologize for Bulldogs screw up and thats all I will ever apologize to Magus about.

As for the whole respect thing, you have to earn respect before you can receive it.

[Megafanx13]

As for buyog and the rest that you just said approve of making this little feud personal.

Why come alone if they support you so much, tell buyog and the rest of the team to come hear and lets sort this whole mess out.

I'm trying to keep up in this, but frankly, 3 kids, grad school, and working two jobs, PLUS trying to actually *create* something for MUGEN instead of just fighting about it... well, honestly I don't have the time or the energy.  :

If you dont want your stuff out in the open then dont go making a website about it and then start complaining when leechers take your sh*t.

No, he's complaining about people taking and sharing UNFINISHED STUFF THAT WE HAVEN'T EVEN RELEASED! Why is this so hard to understand? Take our public stuff and share it all you want; I realize that we're not able to stop that. But the thing that hurts us here is that someone (maybe more than one someone, I don't know) betrayed our confidence and shared our private, unfinished work with you guys. It got into Bulldog's hands, and now people on YouTube are trading for "ultra rare MUGEN charz" like my nowhere-near-finished Parasite (which it *really* pains me to see people using, because that old version is a load of crap). THAT'S why Magus calls you thieves... I don't prefer that term, but you can't deny that you were sharing things you shouldn't have had in the first place.

I thank you for coming over Buyog but you dont get where we are coming from.

Yes your stuff got leaked by someone on your end, that is the cold hard FACT.

Also yes we did get ahold of them, but we never distributed them on our site.

Can you ever say that you saw us post around and say we got So and So stuff come and get it, never.

You know that and we know that.

Now yes, an ex member of ours did go out of bounds and leak your stuff and ours.

But what I dont get from Magus point of view is why he calls us thieves.

He makes it sound like we went over to your site and stole all your creations.

Now come on, you sound like a reasonable adult here.

The fact is that someone that is part of your team is leaking out these betas.

And just like Chaotic said, its part of human nature to feel curious.

Now because someone leaks out something of yours to the masses why all of a sudden does that become INFINITY's fault.

We get the full brunt of it because of our warehousing past.

Its like we are the scapegoat for the screw ups at your forum.

Now all in all I would simply say is if Magus wants a damn apology then fine.

I will apologize for Bulldogs screw up and thats all I will ever apologize to Magus about.

As for the whole respect thing, you have to earn respect before you can receive it.

great words, scar. i've only been with infinity since march of '07 and in some ways, am still kind of noobish, but, to buyog, yes infinity was kinda warehousing stuff a while back. and yes, bulldog leaked some things. but how does one person represent the whole of infinity? so just cause one person did something bad, it's suddenly the whole forum's fault?

[Buyog]

I thank you for coming over Buyog but you dont get where we are coming from.

Yes your stuff got leaked by someone on your end, that is the cold hard FACT.

Also yes we did get ahold of them, but we never distributed them on our site.

Can you ever say that you saw us post around and say we got So and So stuff come and get it, never.

That's not at all what I'm saying. Yes, we know we had a leaker. Pretty sure we know who it was, and he's no longer part of the team. But he didn't (to my knowledge anyway) leak things to the public, he gave them to you guys... and you shared them on your private forum, even though they were mostly-unfinished. That's the source of the disrespect Magus feels is directed toward us... we lost control of who could test and share our private work, to people we didn't know or, in many cases, trust. Bulldog is the result of that policy. We KNOW you didn't publish this stuff to the public... but our stance is you shouldn't have had that stuff in the first place. We've taken care of the leak on our side; all I want is assurance that this sort of behavior isn't going to continue. What Magus wants, well that I can't answer. *shrug*

[Inky(Zangief Guy)]

Buyog, I think you're right. This war shal be over....

[dennis872005]

i say we end this now. bulldog is gone, so what is the problem now.

[Buyog]

OWNED!!!!!!!!!!!  uh huh, suck that, magus!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for contributing to the discussion... :-P

yes, bulldog leaked some things. but how does one person represent the whole of infinity? so just cause one person did something bad, it's suddenly the whole forum's fault?

No, just the admins, whose policy was at one point to share private betas with each other. How do you think Bulldog *got* the stuff he leaked? We sure as hell didn't know or trust him.

i say we end this now. bulldog is gone, so what is the problem now.

Yes, Bulldog is gone, and yet the leaks continue (Sunfire for example). I think Magus's concern is that the policy that led to the Bulldog leak is still in force. (I'm still undecided)

[dennis872005]

if it was leaked i am pretty sure it was someone on your side. It could have even been Magus himself, to make infinity look bad.  I mean you guys are sharing your creations so I don't get why you guys don't think it was someone on your side. Does it not make the most sense, that someone you that you shared your creations would leak it.

[Scar]

In all honestly that whole sunfire thing has nothing to do with us.

As a matter of fact this is the first time I heard about that leak but I can assure you it wasnt any of us.

Now come on Buyog, you now that everybody shares their stuff privately.

We do, but only amonst the core TEAM.

As do other forums, so dont act like were the only ones that do so.

You guys know how it is when someone betrays your trust as do we, but I can assure you that we have been doing our best to control this epidemic of leaks.

When Nightwing got leaked, we removed the link asap and banned the member that posted that link.

We even let you guys know about it and we still got blamed for the leak.

Now that wanst cool at all.

[Mustkillroy]

Here's a question: how the hell do you know that Bulldog didn't get the leaked characters from the original leaker and not from the private forum?

[Alexziq]

>Then how did Bulldog get them?

Same way everyone else did from the Beta Tester guy that asks everyone for Bruno by Pockefree man. I dont remember his name but he PM'd everyone of us who had WIPS saying he would cough up Parasite, Black Cat, and Even Hal Jordan. He said he was one of your Beta Testers.

I spammed him on every site knowing he was trying to get anther Private Wip by leaking your stuff. Madcook was sending videos of Ghost Rider on you tube 2 months b4 Bulldog ever leaked him, so how did cook have him, or did Demon give him to Cook because he nabbed him from Wuccash like everything else Demon used without permission.

But what do I know Im an Infinity Leach as I believe Magus's chronies called me.

[Mustkillroy]

>Then how did Bulldog get them?

Same way everyone else did from the Beta Tester guy that asks everyone for Bruno by Pockefree man. I dont remember his name but he PM'd everyone of us who had WIPS saying he would cough up Parasite, Black Cat, and Even Hal Jordan. He said he was one of your Beta Testers.

I spammed him on every site knowing he was trying to get anther Private Wip by leaking your stuff. Madcook was sending videos of Ghost Rider on you tube 2 months b4 Bulldog ever leaked him, so how did cook have him, or did Demon give him to Cook because he nabbed him from Wuccash like everything else Demon used without permission.

But what do I know Im an Infinity Leach as I believe Magus's chronies called me.

ALEXZIQ wins the topic.

By the way, I remember someone PMing me and offering to trade me leaked WIPs from both the DCvM and MvC: EoH projects. I think he was called Adam or something.

[Buyog]

Scar: You've got a point about the Nightwing leak. I have no clue about the Sunfire one (first I heard of it was yesterday), I'm still trying to understand what happened there. O_o

I don't know about this "beta tester" guy, but I can tell you nobody on our side would have given him our stuff, except maybe our leaker, but even that I doubt.

Okay, here's the deal: how about the next time someone leaks one of your team's private works to me (which, incidentally, has never happened), I delete it immediately and tell Acey. Is that really so hard to do? As a creator, I truly try to respect other creator's wishes, and if I'm given something that goes *against* their wishes, I'll get rid of it. Period. End of story. I won't post a link to it in the ScruffyDragon private forum and go "hey guys, look at what *I* got!" :-P

THAT'S my beef. But then again, maybe I'm expecting an ethical standard that not everyone else shares. *shrug*

Here's my suggestion, and I'll take this to Magus too: our forums may never be "friends," but I'd like to think we can agree to a zero-tolerance policy on unnecessary flames on both sides. I'll change the forum word filtering (and most likely endure Magus's wrath in doing so) and lock the thread on our side, and you guys put a stop to the "OMG Magus is the Antichrist"-style flames. But know that anyone who comes to our forum saying "Infinity Rulez, Dragons Drool!" will still be muzzled.

[Scar]

Scar: You've got a point about the Nightwing leak. I have no clue about the Sunfire one (first I heard of it was yesterday), I'm still trying to understand what happened there. O_o

I don't know about this "beta tester" guy, but I can tell you nobody on our side would have given him our stuff, except maybe our leaker, but even that I doubt.

Okay, here's the deal: how about the next time someone leaks one of your team's private works to me (which, incidentally, has never happened), I delete it immediately and tell Acey. Is that really so hard to do? As a creator, I truly try to respect other creator's wishes, and if I'm given something that goes *against* their wishes, I'll get rid of it. Period. End of story. I won't post a link to it in the ScruffyDragon private forum and go "hey guys, look at what *I* got!" :-P

THAT'S my beef. But then again, maybe I'm expecting an ethical standard that not everyone else shares. *shrug*

Here's my suggestion, and I'll take this to Magus too: our forums may never be "friends," but I'd like to think we can agree to a zero-tolerance policy on unnecessary flames on both sides. I'll change the forum word filtering (and most likely endure Magus's wrath in doing so) and lock the thread on our side, and you guys put a stop to the "OMG Magus is the Antichrist"-style flames. But know that anyone who comes to our forum saying "Infinity Rulez, Dragons Drool!" will still be muzzled.

Thats basically all I want to do Buyog, its to stop al this flame wars between both our forums.

The Magus bashing will end I can assure you of that, as for the leaks aswell.

If anything comes across our way, I will promise you that you'll be the first to know about it.

Im glad that you came over Buyog to discuss this in an Adult manner an getting this whole mess resolved.

This whole he said she said drama has to stop.

[Sabaki]

Some progress is being made in negotiations. Finally!

Now, I'm gonna temporarily lock this thread and let both sides finalize things. Scar, acey, and any othe admins who feel like unlocking the thread can do so if they feel fit.

[.:K.I.N.G:.]

i want to say this to Buyog and magus.
you guys can't blame the IMT team for leaking your stuff....cus actually when you have a team of friends and all of you are working on a project together you share stuff with your team......that's how it is.....it's only natural to share your stuff with your friends and team.....now when someone from your trusted team leaks what you shared with him it's his fault not all your teammates fault.....i'm sure you guys share your stuff among your team as well at Scruffy Dragon.....and i'm also sure that's how your stuff got leaked.....so just like it happened to you it also happened to the IMT team....look at the poor Acey that magus kept calling her a lier....she works so damn hard on her characters....and now every thing she ever made is leaked i mean all her stuff are online warehoused everywhere curtsy to bulldog.

now i suggest you take a good look at this and you'll see what i mean.

[KPT25]

Yes...finally they are getting along and solving thier differences as reasonable ppl...thx Buyog to come here and bring the reason to this matter...
I know this last months were really terrible for you,but keep it up...
Besides that,i´m happy that there´s an improvement on this situation...
Reasonable words are stronger than any injustified flame...

[Gold_TSG]

I may not be involved with this "war" between forums, but I gotta say what needs to be said. If the head admins of both forums want peace, then they need to be able to be adults, and face each other, not drag the whole forum into it. As was seen already, just by magus posting a topic about it, everyone is getting into it. That's not being adult about it. That's trying to rile up members to continue the war. I'm sick and tired of all this crap between forums. We all hate warehousers, we all hate leakers, and we all respect each other's works. It's that simple. I don't know what Infinity's past rep is, but it's been a good place to hang out since I came here not so long ago. When I got here, they hated warehousing as much as I did, and there are plenty of members who agree with me on that. You can't mark a forum as a hateful place, or a warehouse, just because a small group of new members joined just to advertise their own warehouses. Believe it or not, the admins and mods will delete it, and ban those people when they show themselves.

I really would rather not be involved in this whole "infinity vs infantry" crap, but I needed to say what I did.

[Scar]

No one has even mentioned INFANTRY here...   

[Crabnek]

Scar: You've got a point about the Nightwing leak. I have no clue about the Sunfire one (first I heard of it was yesterday), I'm still trying to understand what happened there. O_o

I don't know about this "beta tester" guy, but I can tell you nobody on our side would have given him our stuff, except maybe our leaker, but even that I doubt.

Okay, here's the deal: how about the next time someone leaks one of your team's private works to me (which, incidentally, has never happened), I delete it immediately and tell Acey. Is that really so hard to do? As a creator, I truly try to respect other creator's wishes, and if I'm given something that goes *against* their wishes, I'll get rid of it. Period. End of story. I won't post a link to it in the ScruffyDragon private forum and go "hey guys, look at what *I* got!" :-P

THAT'S my beef. But then again, maybe I'm expecting an ethical standard that not everyone else shares. *shrug*

Here's my suggestion, and I'll take this to Magus too: our forums may never be "friends," but I'd like to think we can agree to a zero-tolerance policy on unnecessary flames on both sides. I'll change the forum word filtering (and most likely endure Magus's wrath in doing so) and lock the thread on our side, and you guys put a stop to the "OMG Magus is the Antichrist"-style flames. But know that anyone who comes to our forum saying "Infinity Rulez, Dragons Drool!" will still be muzzled.

Thats basically all I want to do Buyog, its to stop al this flame wars between both our forums.

The Magus bashing will end I can assure you of that, as for the leaks aswell.

If anything comes across our way, I will promise you that you'll be the first to know about it.

Im glad that you came over Buyog to discuss this in an Adult manner an getting this whole mess resolved.

This whole he said she said drama has to stop.

And it seems like we are getting extremely close to the end now that everybody is discussing it in an adult manner.

Also, to Buyog: It's a pleasure to read your words and to meet you, and I am honoured to see your opinions on the debate. As far as I can see, you are raising very good points, and Scar, mostly, and Acey are responding to the best of their ability. I agree with your last paragraph you typed. The flames against Magus will come to an end, and I'm sure nobody here would disrespect you enough to go there and say "Infinity Rocks! Dragons Suck!" because everybody here respects the Scruffy Dragons and greatly enjoy your works. I'd also like to thank you for removing the word filters (although I'm sorry you'll have to face Magus for doing so) because it was really nothing more than an annoyance to most people. Nobody here liked it at all, though I'm sure Magus was getting a kick out of it. Thanks for removing it, we appreciate it. It has been great speaking to you, as it has been to speak to Magus, and as I said to him, hopefully we can talk under better conditions after this has all been resolved and calm has returned to the Mugen community, even if only for a limited amount of time. Thank you for coming here and taking the time to read my opinions.

~Crabnek

[Excursion]

Looks like I missed the meat and potatoes of this conversation. I have switched and mixed reactions as I read all five pages of this thread. I was ready to pounce on ridiculous assumptions and stupid accusations but as I sit here at the end, I will just say what I am thinking. Infinity has not been around as long as the other forums. When our original admins started this forum, it was started because of their frustrations with obtaining characters for their MUGEN collection. They hated that they had to beg and plead, be called leechers and n00bs across all forums just because they asked for a character or whatever. They vowed to make this place a place ANY person new to the MUGEN hobby could get what they really wanted for their MUGEN. When you are a n00b, new to MUGEN, you could give 2 shits less about how long someone took to code or rip sprites for a character. You just want to add stuff you never thought possible together in a game. Thats it. As the forum grew in popularity, last year in the summer, the major forums and creators had a "show of force" exhibition and closed all of their sites off to the public. It lasted for a week, but they tried to make a statement. It shut down the original Infinity forum and not much later, we re-birthed. We started small and got bigger and bigger again. This lasted months and months with us going through several more re-births because of various hacks. Someone deleted our forum subjects and threads until there was literally nothing left.

Back in December, we were not that far into our own project. We were all still learning the in's and out's of MUGEN creating. The team, behind the scenes, got Ghost Rider and a couple other unfinished work's through an old team member (who has not been part of Infinity since the beginning of this year) and ONLY amongst ourselves, we kept these works. This is an important fact. Why? Because their stuff nor our stuff would have ever leaked had it not been for one individual, and even then, he only leaked these works in retaliation for us kicking him off the team. Had Bulldog never been kicked, Magus would have a weak argument here against why he hates Infinity. Anyways, the creations did leak. We found out about the leak 1st, and then we immediately tried to get the link deleted and tried to suppress it by flooding the forum it was leaked to. We contacted KFM and he in turn tried helping us with his contacts. We did not sit here and wish and hope that no one would magically find it. We stopped everything we were doing to try to stop this problem from spreading. We did not go to the DCvM crew because:

1. We were not in good standings with Magus.
2. We deleted the link and thread to the leaked Nightwing character and banned the user, but what was the result? Magus shut-down the entire GK project and squarely blamed us for the leak, locking that topic and thread in his now dead GK section (if it's still up.)

Were we to come to DCvM and proclaim that one of our former members LEAKED their stuff without the drama you see before you? How could we NOT think otherwise with the Nightwing situation that had NOTHING to do with any team member, rather just an idiot that decided to sign up and post this on our forum! Anyway, we handled the situation as best we thought we could. If we were in the same predicament again in the same time era, we would do the EXACT same thing again. No apologies here because we felt there was no choice at the time.

We are all different people, different forums. What we do here is not what is done elsewhere. We at one time shared these uber private un-released works with ourselves because we were still hard core players of the engine. I am speaking for myself when I say that I do debugging and beta testing now with MUGEN. I don't have a fancy roster anymore like I used to. I have responsibilities to this forum now along with my sense of responsibility to the team to get my WIPs done with so we can release our full game project on time. This is all on the free time I have that I spend on the computer. I also have a full-time job, a son, school and other things I handle away from this screen. As for apologies to Magus, for any of this, I am speaking for myself here. Your little conspiracy theory post labeled: Infinity problems, the proof topic is satirical. You put tons of quotes together to make it look like we contradict ourselves and we are monkeys in the end. There have been mistakes in the past, no doubt, but if you sit here and spend that much time in your "detective work" then I understand now why you canceled your GK project. Why would you even mention this link of a Beast file that has not been linked to since Acey took the actual link off? You sit here and hate warehousing with all your being, but you are being a jerk by posting out IN PUBLIC that the file was still there. You take and drag us through the mud in public on your forum and you expect us to apologize to you? You are sitting in our warehousing past while we have moved on. We have changed our ways and policies since the Bulldog leak. We do not operate the same way. We apologized to you and your co-hort's when all of this went down, but I don't see you quoting that. That was not enough for you. I was the chief negotiator for this forum during that incident, so I would know. For the sake of our members, I am willing to put my grudge aside to co-exist, but like you, we are unable to control rogue individuals what want to incite a fight by signing up in our respective forums and posting crap "on behalf of the admins of _____" or posting a link to anything private. You think that we are childish enough to send someone to do that kind of crap then you are mistaken. We have repeated over and over and over that we are sick and tired of the drama. We have wanted this to end for a long time now, but you continue to provoke more and more problems which in turn provoke our members here to continually vent their frustrations and hope you die a painful death.


All this arguing in turn is stupid. We all know and realize this. We are an have been willing to let this go, but YOU are the one that needs to take the next step. You still censor our name to "Infinity, place where only some of the admins are hyprocrits" and until you start dropping your vendetta against us you will continue to meet resistance from us. Again, I am speaking for myself here and not the team. You should take your disdain for us and channel that energy into finishing phase 1 of your project. Buyog, your presence is like a breath of fresh air but it is still being stunk up by your fellow admin. If you want to finally clean up this mess, and since Magus loves to make demands, I will request this:

Clean up your forum of all the anti-Infinity posts and topics and get rid of that censor and we will do the exact same. This will start us off a-fresh. This is the only way to clean up and stop rogue members from staring trouble between us and will help some of us forget the current issues we have.

[R.I.C.O - Teros]

*claps*

Excellent post, Excursion. Very well put.

I'd just like to know why I was banned. I also tried helping stop everything, but Magus saw that I didn't like him, no, I didn't say I hated him or used any immature words, I just said I didn't like him (over on this forum, not theirs, so I broke no rules) because I knew he wouldn't agree with what I had to say because he had warned me with each post I created.