Post by: Xfields on November 12, 2014, 05:56:34 PM
i don't know if is the right place to write in, but i felt like sharing...
When i first came onboard to mugen,there were plenty of projects around, newbies and old guys and mugen was already a tool that was being used for a long time.
now, after more than 10 years, i feel like mugen is dying and i don't like the feeling.
i remember that everyday(i mean it, everyday, more than once per day) i came onboard and search into every mugen site i could find in google and altavista(rest in piece) for news, creators, updates, sprites, rare edited stuff, new wips and more than everything , releases.
And in that time, we had new awesome projects emerging everyday, release sites, new creators popping up.
Where it all started to go wrong?
Post by: Jelux Da Casual on November 12, 2014, 06:52:02 PM
Post by: Superjoker on November 12, 2014, 07:13:59 PM
to be honest, I think that we're growing up. A lot of us just don't have the time like we used to, and the generation to come after us doesn't have the attention span or temperament to learn.
True that
babies are being born or growing up too
Artists skills grew and now they have legit careers with a lot of re$ponsibility
Before there was a healthy competition going on between the big forums, now the Dragons have flown and the Infinites have accomplished their goals.
But MUGEN aint dead Xfields, still happening its just a matter of sending PMs and making new friends, the new generation of kids here are mostly into HD 3D games or smartphone app games... MUGEN is healthy just different now
There arent many projects happenin either... IMO
Post by: Tha Lando ( Le CROM ) on November 12, 2014, 07:14:22 PM
to be honest, I think that we're growing up. A lot of us just don't have the time like we used to, and the generation to come after us doesn't have the attention span or temperament to learn.^^(PM)^ This!
I been seeing the lag going on for quite some time. As the years go by it has its ups and downs. New folks comin in dont really have as much a serious interest in the development side as those who been around and already doing things. Some areas in mugen there have been lots of negativity, trolls, site wars and so on. Folks done left and never seriously came back from those spouts. Then there are the very few who have returned but again, time doesnt lend itself well enuff to do ecerything wished. Its...exhausting. Getting older and now the time you used to have is being soaked up by real life that demands the attention.
Something one day will reignite mugens fire like the older times, what that is...no clue. New ideas, more orginal content, more thirsty spriters and coders...who knows but as well....free time and the desire has to be there. No passion, no gain. Hopefully before I leaves mugen it comes back around again.Thats not long from now either so mugen get it in gear again!
Post by: Rage on November 12, 2014, 09:48:01 PM
this is what happens; we grow up, start lives, deal with problems. But we often for get to tend to those things that we truely hold dear. We look for the quick fix and we do it so often we forget about whats dear to us (you) because it is time consuming and we wont be able to give it the time we want. But what we fail to realize is the tending to our passion no matter how small the time will feel so much better over time then that quick fix.
As adults we lose that innocence, we lose sight of the simple things.the things that turely light us up because of this world.
Post by: Twinimage on November 12, 2014, 09:53:47 PM
1. Real life, people get busy
2. The really popular projects that were drawing in a lot of fans have been either accomplished, abandoned or are on hold indefinitely
3. A lack of new exciting projects. So many characters have already been created in MUGEN, it's hard to find a project that is exciting. For me, one of the most exciting parts of MUGEN was seeing new characters be made in video game form. People just don't respond with the same excitement or support as they used to.
The fun part of MUGEN is not just receiving but giving back something cool that you know people will like.
Post by: Acey on November 13, 2014, 10:28:16 AM
Honestly, we are exactly where we were 5 years so, RGoP just released a new Marvel char in Moon Knight, IMT is cooking a project, a bunch of random people are releasing KoF characters that we are all ignoring and someone even released a Symbiote Captain America. Second verse, same as the first.
Post by: O Ilusionista on November 13, 2014, 10:49:54 AM
Quote
now, after more than 10 years, i feel like mugen is dying and i don't like the feeling.I keep hearing this statement since 1999, every year. If you do a search, you will probabily find it here too :)
The perfect answer is this:
Quote
to be honest, I think that we're growing up. A lot of us just don't have the time like we used to, and the generation to come after us doesn't have the attention span or temperament to learn.
I agree in every aspect. Take some people here as example: Excursion, Lando, Zvitor, Acey, myself...we are all past 30 years, and some of us are already near the 40 years. OldGuy is even older. You start to get tired of some things, you have to find the very rare free time to work in something because you now have kids, a family to care, your job...
Its a whole different animal then before. For example, when I started with this, I was single, a young 21 years old boy starting his career. Now I am almost 37 years old, with two kids to care (one is already a teenager), now a manager responsbile for a lot of things, full of things to care...Its not the same thing.
I don't agree with
Quote
I agree with most things said here however ever those are the excuse people feed themselves to avoid guilt. If you have passion, love for some thing you'll make time. Even if its just 5 minutes in a week....Because this works fine in the magical world. But not in the real world. And we aren't Alice anymore :)
I love to play piano, its one of my passions and I play for 20 years. But simple can't find free time to do it.
Quote
A lack of new exciting projects. So many characters have already been created in MUGEN, it's hard to find a project that is exciting. For me, one of the most exciting parts of MUGEN was seeing new characters be made in video game form. People just don't respond with the same excitement or support as they used to.You got a point here.
Quote
IMT is cooking a projectReally? That is cool to know. I am all ears.
But I hope we can gather people in a more organized way.
Post by: Rage on November 13, 2014, 11:15:05 AM
If IMT is cooking a project then the name should be change to IM.
Post by: O Ilusionista on November 13, 2014, 11:34:23 AM
Quote
IDK what it is but we always seem to disagree OBut that is the magic of life - to be able to disagree from each other. All the inventions, new ideas and such were made by people that disagree from other people :)
Quote
You have time but rather focus it in other places.For sure. In places where I receive something in return (IOW get paid or good moments with my family)
Post by: Tha Lando ( Le CROM ) on November 13, 2014, 01:04:37 PM
some of us are already near the 40Ha this hobo will be 41 coming april. I am already there and I just cant get rid of all the grey hair popping up! :'( lol I am an old fart now. :P
Seriously my time has been so limited all this year. Learning codings, advancing my spriting skills , learning not just mugen stuff but android development and reading and watching tuts on engines and the coding and everything all this year. But I got 2 kids and I have to spend time with them. I help out my sis with her kids watchin them when can, I still looking for a full time job, heck a part time job too. Hobos need money cause I seriously dont want to forever be one. That takes my time away from doing stuff I have already laid out previously.
Hand drawing characters and then converting to sprites takes time, especially these hd ones. I just learned how to code stages in fighter factory thanx to Oldgamer and me being cool friends and talkin on skype with the walkthrough. He is one but few that have seen the scope of what I have done aside from what all I still have to do. Its massive and takes time. Quality over speed means for me at least..free time . Which is when I have nothing else planned and can yank myself away to work on them....and that when pc aint down..
Mugen is a hobby wether you have a lot of passion or highly skilled. Time is always the factor. Some of us can make that time, can make that sacrifice for it. I have done it so many time during these 4 years learning to do stuff but a lot of those times I shouldnt have. Cause I missed an opportunity to do something that I could have benefited for me and my kids doing it. I cant make those same type sacrifices anymore. Its my reality. So now I do things during the freed up time that I do have to concentrate more and focus. Everyone situations and circumstances are different as well their priorities.
Full game projects take a long time and so does single new wips. We all know this tho. lol
I plan before I retire from mugen to at least release my 2 main mugen wips and hopefully the bor one. But thats a community project so its only up for those folks if can or even want to. I am leaving for 9 to 10 months soon from mugen scene so i can focus on RL, support my kids better and have things in order as well work on both my hobby and my legit side stuff. Mugen has come a very long way and I doubt it wil ever actually die out cause there are folks who keep it thriving and alive. As said, mugen has been at this stages many many times and it always bounces back into gear. May it always continue cause It will.
I think I ran out of stuff to say...first time for anything I guess. :D
Post by: GTAguy on November 13, 2014, 02:09:53 PM
Sure i see releases everyday, but some of them are ready being made for mugen.
That's why i put myself in a hiatus mode. But you know what i'm talking about.
Don't worry, we get new people who likes mugen even we know did in 1999. I started in 2007/2008. Now in 2014, i see now that everything has changes alot.
Post by: Twinimage on November 13, 2014, 02:18:13 PM
- Twin
Post by: Tha Lando ( Le CROM ) on November 13, 2014, 02:35:14 PM
14 years ago I used to jump at joy playing mugen, ocer the years to flllow was playing everything I could possible. Once I got into learning the creation process of mugen and learn things and then revisit old stuff I already knew before mugen existence I dont play with it as much. I download stuff I am interested in and put in certain mugen sp's in a cool roster and play at leisure. Others mostly now....I beta test for folks or and just my own stuff I have done and also making.
There are certain stages and characters that I follow or pops up that peeks my intrest so I play them. Some I try to master and others I just enjoy them for how they are made. I enjoy playing against my son when he was down for the summer. But yeah for me its right now just testing stuff and my own.
Post by: O Ilusionista on November 13, 2014, 02:39:10 PM
I myself never play MUGEN, only create stuff when I have the time. I'm curious, do people ever play MUGEN? And do you guys play with your own custom roster or just completed projects?
- Twin
Just for testing, I don't play with Mugen anymore. Only when we are talking about full games.
Post by: GTAguy on November 13, 2014, 03:01:00 PM
I myself never play MUGEN, only create stuff when I have the time. I'm curious, do people ever play MUGEN?
Well me actually. When i got bored and look at some releases char/s that i haven't tested yet.
Post by: WizzyWhipitWonderful on November 13, 2014, 04:09:57 PM
Post by: Twinimage on November 13, 2014, 04:22:05 PM
And when I'm not doing that I'm practicing martial arts...
You do martial arts too!? :)
I have been learning karate for around a year now. What art do you train in?
Post by: WizzyWhipitWonderful on November 13, 2014, 05:19:38 PM
Post by: Acey on November 13, 2014, 06:49:21 PM
Post by: Tha Lando ( Le CROM ) on November 13, 2014, 06:56:17 PM
I've been doing Tae Kwon Do for 6 years; I've also practiced Sambo wrestling and boxing for 2 years.Wow Wizzy and Twin! Cool to see there are other martial artists around than just the few I already know here that do also. :thumbsup:
Post by: ELECTRO on November 13, 2014, 08:25:11 PM
1 : In the beginning there was nothing. So the field is wide open for chars, stages etc... to get made & it was exciting to see what might pop up next because everything was new. As time goes on & the popular characters are all made & even have multiple edits, their is less of a drive for the creative side of the community to want to make stuff. This leads to less releases & in turn makes the consumer side of the community tune in less because there is not as much to track down & download. They are symbiotic of each other, so when one fades the other fades as well.
2 : After many years of the same creators refining there skills and becoming really good at making Mugen content. It's hard for a newb to creating to compete & might feel overwhelmed/scared to release something. They might get frustrated and give up because they feel unimportant to the community & will eventually move on to something else where they can feel more apart. It's the same theory as trying to join a Call of Duty multiplayer match for the first time, but years after the game came out. The new player is going to feel useless and overwhelmed that he cannot compete with the other players who have been there for years. So that player will eventually give up & move onto something else because it's not fun to suck at something.
With all that said I actually think the community is stronger now being a little less populated. Sure we don't have 20 versions of Ryu coming out every day like there was in the beginning, but 90% of those old creations where crap. I see less releases nowadays, but the quality has greatly improved & the lack of popular chars/stages etc... to make has made most creators have to use the imaginations & push boundaries in order to make something spectacular. This makes me want to stick around more than ever.
Post by: GTAguy on November 14, 2014, 02:00:49 AM
With all that said I actually think the community is stronger now being a little less populated. Sure we don't have 20 versions of Ryu coming out every day like there was in the beginning, but 90% of those old creations where crap. I see less releases nowadays, but the quality has greatly improved & the lack of popular chars/stages etc... to make has made most creators have to use the imaginations & push boundaries in order to make something spectacular. This makes me want to stick around more than ever.
They still making Ryu's, Kula's, Tohou's, Akuma's and all the others that all being over remade again. That's why I have other things to do.
Post by: Chimoru on November 14, 2014, 06:26:22 AM
Anyway, my point is that Electro is right about people being intimidated to create. I used to create for that Freedom Force site, but rarely shared either because I thought I had no skill compared to some of the other amazing people, and I feared the criticism. I used to be afraid to learn these things because I though coding was impossible. Difficult, yes, but not impossible. Also, maybe it's because I'm older and have a love of the pixels and games like this from "my era", that I'd happy to sit in my nostalgia and keep with MUGEN. My niece, (a fairly strong gamer who makes sprites for fun) saw me making Jubilee and was excited and said "Oh! can I make one?" not realizing the work that goes in. I tried to explain MUGEN to her a bit and while she kinda shut it down. It surprised me. She's young, she loves comics, she loves spriting, she loves video games (including fighting), why not love MUGEN?
It wasn't instant-gratification...that's why. It was "work". The feedback and criticism I showed her for my works scared her. It's not scary, it's how you learn. She's used to her other gaming forum where she gets praise all the time. Maybe I scared her off from it. Maybe she needs time like I did. Maybe she thought it was too much of a "boys club". Who knows?
Another thing I want to say is that when you tear people apart in MUGEN, they don't want to share anymore and I think it's a harsh thing to do to someone who just wanted to share with you in the first place. Criticize and help, yes, but don't just say "that's bad" or something without detailed reasons. That's not helpful.
Ok, I rant a lot all over the place, so I'll shut up now. :P
Post by: [PRB] | TheFclass97 on November 14, 2014, 02:49:10 PM
I notice that ever since I started creating, I play less than I create. I was never good at fighting games anyway, it was my love of comics that brought me to MUGEN. Someone posted about it back in a forum for the game Freedom Force, a game that I used to make character skins and 3D model hexes for. (Some of you may remember it. Electro. Intensity. I remember you guys!)
Anyway, my point is that Electro is right about people being intimidated to create. I used to create for that Freedom Force site, but rarely shared either because I thought I had no skill compared to some of the other amazing people, and I feared the criticism. I used to be afraid to learn these things because I though coding was impossible. Difficult, yes, but not impossible. Also, maybe it's because I'm older and have a love of the pixels and games like this from "my era", that I'd happy to sit in my nostalgia and keep with MUGEN. My niece, (a fairly strong gamer who makes sprites for fun) saw me making Jubilee and was excited and said "Oh! can I make one?" not realizing the work that goes in. I tried to explain MUGEN to her a bit and while she kinda shut it down. It surprised me. She's young, she loves comics, she loves spriting, she loves video games (including fighting), why not love MUGEN?
It wasn't instant-gratification...that's why. It was "work". The feedback and criticism I showed her for my works scared her. It's not scary, it's how you learn. She's used to her other gaming forum where she gets praise all the time. Maybe I scared her off from it. Maybe she needs time like I did. Maybe she thought it was too much of a "boys club". Who knows?
Another thing I want to say is that when you tear people apart in MUGEN, they don't want to share anymore and I think it's a harsh thing to do to someone who just wanted to share with you in the first place. Criticize and help, yes, but don't just say "that's bad" or something without detailed reasons. That's not helpful.
Ok, I rant a lot all over the place, so I'll shut up now. :P
I agree 100%...
Post by: Superjoker on November 15, 2014, 03:09:41 AM
i make the time to play it especially when mates are over, (HDMI cable baby!)
But I think you cannot truly play this game without FRIENDS, sharing and creating.
It's funner like that IMO...
Some people forget about the meaning of INFINITY :cool
Post by: Arkady on November 15, 2014, 03:38:18 AM
I notice that ever since I started creating, I play less than I create. I was never good at fighting games anyway, it was my love of comics that brought me to MUGEN. Someone posted about it back in a forum for the game Freedom Force, a game that I used to make character skins and 3D model hexes for. (Some of you may remember it. Electro. Intensity. I remember you guys!)
Anyway, my point is that Electro is right about people being intimidated to create. I used to create for that Freedom Force site, but rarely shared either because I thought I had no skill compared to some of the other amazing people, and I feared the criticism. I used to be afraid to learn these things because I though coding was impossible. Difficult, yes, but not impossible. Also, maybe it's because I'm older and have a love of the pixels and games like this from "my era", that I'd happy to sit in my nostalgia and keep with MUGEN. My niece, (a fairly strong gamer who makes sprites for fun) saw me making Jubilee and was excited and said "Oh! can I make one?" not realizing the work that goes in. I tried to explain MUGEN to her a bit and while she kinda shut it down. It surprised me. She's young, she loves comics, she loves spriting, she loves video games (including fighting), why not love MUGEN?
It wasn't instant-gratification...that's why. It was "work". The feedback and criticism I showed her for my works scared her. It's not scary, it's how you learn. She's used to her other gaming forum where she gets praise all the time. Maybe I scared her off from it. Maybe she needs time like I did. Maybe she thought it was too much of a "boys club". Who knows?
Another thing I want to say is that when you tear people apart in MUGEN, they don't want to share anymore and I think it's a harsh thing to do to someone who just wanted to share with you in the first place. Criticize and help, yes, but don't just say "that's bad" or something without detailed reasons. That's not helpful.
Ok, I rant a lot all over the place, so I'll shut up now. :P
I agree 100%...
^^(PM)^ here here down with the boys club XD||
totally agree chimoru
Post by: Tha Lando ( Le CROM ) on November 15, 2014, 11:51:35 AM
Omfg ....we are a ....boys club? :o
We need more girls in the club then! Boys always go all out to impress the girls. Will see a total flux in mugen creating big time. Lol. Well thats what boys did back in the 80s trying to impress the girls. Hahaha.
Hmmmm actually when comes showing kids to sprite, my 5 year old neice took to it better than my 13 year old son. He a sports jock while she loves to draw and me showing her stuff. Had my son do 1 single sprite....quit on it cause he thought it took too long while my neice sat down for an hour and half just to learn it and shade. Lol.
He doesnt mind helpin with the art looks on paper but cpu...not his thing . Kids are a stramge bunch but def shows they are only willing if they have the patience and interest to do it. He loves to play mugen , but the creating side....not his thing.
Post by: Chimoru on November 15, 2014, 11:58:03 AM
I know we have some ELITE (not elitist) creators here that have been around since the beginning and they are really good, so they have come to expect greatness. That's good. We look up to you guys. I came into MUGEN around the original Project X time (Not "Second Coming" Project X, I mean like, "ComedyHaHa" old-school Project X, 2004-2005) So I've been around this community for maybe a decade now. I didn't start creating until maybe 2 years ago. So I'm an old-timer who is late to the creation game. My fear of coding grew a lot from the idea that because everyone else had a headstart on me, I'd never catch up or that it was just too hard and impossible for me.
Neither of these things are true.
It's not so hard that it's impossible to learn and it's really inspiring to know that you can add things now to characters that you love, or make ones that don't exist yet. Have I gotten to be as skilled as I want? No, but I'm having fun getting there.
There might be a rift between the ELITE and the NEWBIES, but we're not at war. I DO think that we could try to meet more in the middle though. I understand that the ELITE can't let mistakes slide because then it reflects poorly on THEM for allowing it, so I'm GLAD they call me on stuff. If they don't check your work, who will?
That being said....not everyone is GLAD to get called out. Don't get me wrong, I can get frustrated when I work on something and it gets called "trash". I don't feel that kind of vicious criticism is helpful, but I know it unfortunately exists. However, I DO believe that people can be reasonable if given the chance, so I have to stop, look at it objectively, calm myself, put my feeling on the back burner, and ask that person WHY they think what I did is bad and what THEY would suggest to make it better. Now, instead of being at a "war of opinions", I'm now working to be at a "creative alliance" with a more experienced person whose information and help is invaluable.
I notice that a lot of the ELITE creators actually LIKE when a NEWBIE can take criticism and WANTS to improve. I wish more NEWBIES would do this, and I wish more ELITE would remember that they were not always as skilled as they are now and try to be a bit kinder. It took courage for a NEWBIE to transition from an INACTIVE observer to an ACTIVE contributor. It would be a shame to make them regret it. For all you know, a lot of the "retired" creators may still be working, just not sharing with us anymore because they got needlessly slammed too hard. I'd be lying if I said the thought never crossed my mind.
Like I said, this community is more than a decade old, so I know it's hard to "time-travel" like that, and remember what it was like to be a NEWBIE, but please try.
Also, NEWBIES, please try to understand that if an ELITE calls you out, it's because they are trying to bring something to your attention and please ask them about it, no matter how harsh they are. People can be reasonable. Not always, but it doesn't hurt to try.
We are a small community and we're all we have. Our experiences and thoughts are not really found in other gaming forums, we should treat each other with respect, empathize with each other, and work together through a bit of sacrifice for the better of this community.
That's just my two cents. I thank you all for your help and your attention.
Post by: O Ilusionista on November 15, 2014, 03:52:24 PM
Quote
Also, NEWBIES, please try to understand that if an ELITE calls you out, it's because they are trying to bring something to your attention and please ask them about it, no matter how harsh they are. People can be reasonable. Not always, but it doesn't hurt to try.oh sweet Lord of heaven, finally people are starting to understand!
Post by: Arkady on November 15, 2014, 04:29:43 PM
Well thank you. I'm glad that I'm not the only one that feels this way. I know these are just my opinions, but I think some of them are valid.
I know we have some ELITE (not elitist) creators here that have been around since the beginning and they are really good, so they have come to expect greatness. That's good. We look up to you guys. I came into MUGEN around the original Project X time (Not "Second Coming" Project X, I mean like, "ComedyHaHa" old-school Project X, 2004-2005) So I've been around this community for maybe a decade now. I didn't start creating until maybe 2 years ago. So I'm an old-timer who is late to the creation game. My fear of coding grew a lot from the idea that because everyone else had a headstart on me, I'd never catch up or that it was just too hard and impossible for me.
Neither of these things are true.
It's not so hard that it's impossible to learn and it's really inspiring to know that you can add things now to characters that you love, or make ones that don't exist yet. Have I gotten to be as skilled as I want? No, but I'm having fun getting there.
There might be a rift between the ELITE and the NEWBIES, but we're not at war. I DO think that we could try to meet more in the middle though. I understand that the ELITE can't let mistakes slide because then it reflects poorly on THEM for allowing it, so I'm GLAD they call me on stuff. If they don't check your work, who will?
That being said....not everyone is GLAD to get called out. Don't get me wrong, I can get frustrated when I work on something and it gets called "trash". I don't feel that kind of vicious criticism is helpful, but I know it unfortunately exists. However, I DO believe that people can be reasonable if given the chance, so I have to stop, look at it objectively, calm myself, put my feeling on the back burner, and ask that person WHY they think what I did is bad and what THEY would suggest to make it better. Now, instead of being at a "war of opinions", I'm now working to be at a "creative alliance" with a more experienced person whose information and help is invaluable.
I notice that a lot of the ELITE creators actually LIKE when a NEWBIE can take criticism and WANTS to improve. I wish more NEWBIES would do this, and I wish more ELITE would remember that they were not always as skilled as they are now and try to be a bit kinder. It took courage for a NEWBIE to transition from an INACTIVE observer to an ACTIVE contributor. It would be a shame to make them regret it. For all you know, a lot of the "retired" creators may still be working, just not sharing with us anymore because they got needlessly slammed too hard. I'd be lying if I said the thought never crossed my mind.
Like I said, this community is more than a decade old, so I know it's hard to "time-travel" like that, and remember what it was like to be a NEWBIE, but please try.
Also, NEWBIES, please try to understand that if an ELITE calls you out, it's because they are trying to bring something to your attention and please ask them about it, no matter how harsh they are. People can be reasonable. Not always, but it doesn't hurt to try.
We are a small community and we're all we have. Our experiences and thoughts are not really found in other gaming forums, we should treat each other with respect, empathize with each other, and work together through a bit of sacrifice for the better of this community.
That's just my two cents. I thank you all for your help and your attention.
:lies: I'm Right! YOure wrong! and your work pfft o.O#
>:D totally agree chimoru, with everything you've been saying on this thread :O*D
Post by: Tha Lando ( Le CROM ) on November 15, 2014, 06:01:20 PM
oh sweet Lord of heaven, finally people are starting to understand!:D I KNEW you was gonna quote this part big O. Lol
I can agree with that as well I see many sides of it that really isnt cool with those feedbacks. Many of the.."ELITE" arent always the ones giving those harsh feedbacks to folks. Its the other guys and some crazy troll folks. Some of it aint really even feedback at all, just negative talk with no real substance. Feedback without concise substance to help a problem needed to be solved means very very little if its just rant feedback. When newbie folks who might want to try things read these kinds of posts. It envokes fear. Heck its even chased off those who were elite amongst themselves amd have never come back. Shame it happens.
By no means saying to pamper folks but its always has proven as well to try a different more productive dialog to give feedback without the harshness gone and taken overboard. I can filter stuff from blah blah feedbacks that do have a message, but alas, thats me and I cant expect others to do the same. Works for some and some it doesnt.
its the internet...it always the excuse, but I think in mugen as folks are artists wether older in it or new can have better communications and respect each other to have things work right and learn very well. Thats why I am glad to make good friends with people and good they are great at what they do, from those frienships I am always learning things in a positive put way. So I agree with whats said but I still have my disagrees on feedback issues.
Now I will go and get a sandwich from Arch garbage bin out back....he threw away a perfectly good half eaten hoagie sandwich! :cool Yes! lol
Post by: Hellzone on November 15, 2014, 06:31:09 PM
Post by: DEMONKAI on November 16, 2014, 02:01:20 AM
Hey Guys
i don't know if is the right place to write in, but i felt like sharing...
When i first came onboard to mugen,there were plenty of projects around, newbies and old guys and mugen was already a tool that was being used for a long time.
now, after more than 10 years, i feel like mugen is dying and i don't like the feeling.
i remember that everyday(i mean it, everyday, more than once per day) i came onboard and search into every mugen site i could find in google and altavista(rest in piece) for news, creators, updates, sprites, rare edited stuff, new wips and more than everything , releases.
And in that time, we had new awesome projects emerging everyday, release sites, new creators popping up.
Where it all started to go wrong?
The main thing is people who've been around since the early 2000 within the community are just growing up is all. Having kids, working constantly (like me) and going to college, chasing careers, whatever. It happens. You get life distractions or you lose interest for long periods of time when it comes to hobbies in general. Most now are in their 30s and 40s and with kids.
That plus that trolling crap kills a lot of new possible talent coming into mugen publicly. Before people created for the fun in it and sharing and learning to create. So many clashes happened that people caught feelings and either bailed for a long time or just for good.
I saw the comments on Feedback. If people started focusing more on the coding issues or (sprite issues) respectfully and help get a persons works to be better instead of flame bashing, things would be better collectively as a community. Too many times threads get derailed. Not everybody is illiterate or too young to see when a person is being an @sshole to them so feedback gets twisted up on how its delivered and put across. A creator asks"So tell me if you guys liked it". RESPECTFULLY you tell him/her "yes i liked it" or "no i didnt". A Small mature opinionated constructive reason why without insults if you didnt. They asked so you give it! Simple! IF the creator says "Let me know if you found any bugs". RESPECTFULLY. You list the things you saw odd or a bit off and possibly share what you think could fix it if you are a bit experienced. When people master that part without insulting each other being douche bags in threads the community will prosper way better.
Anyway Mugen will still be around as long as the vets are willing to create new stuff and newbies are willing to listen and learn to join in with that also without fear of failure. Its only a hobby folks.
Thats all i gotta say on that.......
Post by: shastab24 on November 16, 2014, 10:37:05 PM
There's also the fact that, popularly, many people see MUGEN as this weird giant crossover fighting game. Considering it's obviously a fan project, that can make people disregard it. I would love to see the thing maybe ride some of the coattails of the uptick in indie game popularity. It's just as to the how that's the problem.
But also another big problem with everything is a broken balance amongst characters. Too many cheap characters diminish the game. But this also goes into the regular characters--power levels are erratic and nonsensical (computer-controlled, Dazzler will wipe the floor with computer-controlled original universe Superman every time, for instance). It would be problematic to fix this, too, as people should not be censored from making who they want, and there's also the fact that to stay true to a certain game, characters may well be grossly overpowered. Compound that with people creating characters to fit that game and others creating characters to fit that and that can be a problem. Still, it can be difficult to play the game if your favorite characters all fight so differently. Personally, as a rather low-skill level player, I may like the idea of the game, and want to play, but I have to go through a painstaking process of trying to find out who is at what power level so I can tier the characters and then finally possibly learn to play the game (maybe if someone found out how to have the difficulty levels in the game actually mean something, possibly to correspond to different AI files or something).
As far as the boys' club aspect: I'm a woman who's part of the community, if that means anything. But of course there are exceptions in every group and I guess I'm one of them. Really, I got into it because fighting games are my favorite type of video games (despite being rather bad at playing them--I tend to do "jump kick, kick, repeat" in order to play) and I love superheroes, which are rather plentiful in the community. Now, my being female may be dismissed by some due to my being transgender, but such is as it is.
Post by: Chimoru on November 16, 2014, 11:28:21 PM
Now, my being female may be dismissed by some due to my being transgender, but such is as it is.
A bit off-topic, but I personally, would never dismiss you for being transgender. You are 100% female as far as I'm concerned.
Back to the main topic, you make a lot of valid points. I am also a very low-skill player. I create mainly out of my love for comic characters, not so much the fighting game aspect. Still, if I'm going to offer something to everyone, I have to make sure that there is something EVERYONE can enjoy, and that's...difficult. LOL It's a process I struggle with for every project I release.
Sure I can make a bunch of characters for myself that maybe aren't up to par, but look cool, but what fun is that? So, I choose to take the more difficult road and try to make stuff that's more suitable for a high-skill player. This is the wall I keep hitting. But I believe if I learn to use the community and its resources appropriately, I can learn how to use MUGEN and create for it appropriately as well. It's not a perfect system, no, but you don't find games like this just anywhere. I'll try to do the best I can with this opportunity.
Post by: Twinimage on November 17, 2014, 01:20:52 AM
Post by: O Ilusionista on November 17, 2014, 08:37:20 AM
Quote
Now, my being female may be dismissed by some due to my being transgender, but such is as it is.Not really. Bea/Beatrice is very known on the community for 15 years and she is a trangender too. I never saw someone treating her without respect. Because respect has nothing with gender, faith, race, etc. What it counts are the attitudes.
Post by: Tha Lando ( Le CROM ) on November 17, 2014, 09:56:39 AM
There's also the fact that, popularly, many people see MUGEN as this weird giant crossover fighting game. Considering it's obviously a fan project, that can make people disregard it. I would love to see the thing maybe ride some of the coattails of the uptick in indie game popularity. It's just as to the how that's the problem.
But also another big problem with everything is a broken balance amongst characters. Too many cheap characters diminish the game. But this also goes into the regular characters--power levels are erratic and nonsensical (computer-controlled, Dazzler will wipe the floor with computer-controlled original universe Superman every time, for instance). It would be problematic to fix this, too, as people should not be censored from making who they want, and there's also the fact that to stay true to a certain game, characters may well be grossly overpowered. Compound that with people creating characters to fit that game and others creating characters to fit that and that can be a problem. Still, it can be difficult to play the game if your favorite characters all fight so differently. Personally, as a rather low-skill level player, I may like the idea of the game, and want to play, but I have to go through a painstaking process of trying to find out who is at what power level so I can tier the characters and then finally possibly learn to play the game (maybe if someone found out how to have the difficulty levels in the game actually mean something, possibly to correspond to different AI files or something).
As far as the boys' club aspect: I'm a woman who's part of the community, if that means anything. But of course there are exceptions in every group and I guess I'm one of them. Really, I got into it because fighting games are my favorite type of video games (despite being rather bad at playing them--I tend to do "jump kick, kick, repeat" in order to play) and I love superheroes, which are rather plentiful in the community. Now, my being female may be dismissed by some due to my being transgender, but such is as it is.
Sup there Shastab. :thumbsup:
I def feel the thoughts. It is gonna be always a cross over game engine. Thats the beauty and lure of MUGEN. Anyone vs anyone. But, there is also the freedom to create a full game with the engine. Thats my biggest draw to mugen. In singular releases of characters, kts very hard to get this " balance" that folks out there would love to have because creators create what they like and share.
Various playstyles that are created and coded in to emulate certain company games mechanics differ in many aspects from others. Not to mention those that go very freestyle with it is even further.
Now full games created is where you will find the key to mugen balance. Its always been said and known. In a full game you have a set gameplay mechanic and balancing characters within it is the goal. Make everything function and work well to have a semblance of gameplay balance with its fighting mechanics. Solo characters....in mugen.....nahhhh. No matter how well your character you create is coded there are thousands that are not in the same manner....even if they are well coded as well.
Only way forseeable to have this type of balance throughout mugen imo from playing characters over the years....they all have similar to exact playstyle. But might become boring then for me.
Broken characters are def those super op murder death kill one hit characters. lol. Very few I have liked cause they were fun but most I stay away from. Unless they are all formed into one full game and then balanced out while retaining their godlike moves and damage then they are no longer...broken. sorta speak. lol
I actually in fighting game dont believe in tiers. I believe in the person playing the characters and their skill levels with them. I have played with some of my offline friends who played with higher tier level character as so put forth and beaten them flat with a lesser tier so called character. Your skill is where its at and part of fighting games is to overcome those challenges that your characters may have against another player wether person of cpu. I am way more skilled at 3d fighting games than some 2d. I suck at mvc3 ( got my buttcheeks handed to me by acey, whiplash, glux, silva silva, manolostyle and sic 1...d@mn you all! \-/o) but I am good at mvc1 and 2....for some odd reason. Lol.
90% of my games stash for every console system I have ever ownd ( and currently) have been fighting games. I love fighting games since ....the begining of them. I usually choose characters I find interesting and of course thei gameplay matters as well how they are done. Cvs, kof and many others I seriously get into like blazblue ( one of my super favs other than Virtua Fighter series and DOA series...my 2 favs period) cause I love the mechanics, the moves and the quality. Yes I am a fighting game nut!
I respect Bea , she is a very cool person., I respect all genders no matter. As said its not about ones gender but ones attitude and personality dislayed is what puts folks either off or cool with. Far as I have seen gender has not been an issue of disrespect in the community. But attitudes and those uhhhggg personallty of those bad apple folks ( trolls) is what I cant stand.
We are a community of gamers of any skill level playing them, creating content wether public or private as well communicating with each other day to day or whenever in the free hobby we try to enjoy. I love to enjoy the company of others that are friendly and cool and respect and admire the folks who create and converse that are the same as well. I still respect art as a whole no matter the level of it.
Dang it another freakin essay! I seriously gotta find shorter ways to say stuff. o.O#
ehhh I am a Crom hobo king....I like speeches I guess. :D
Post by: trexrell44 on November 17, 2014, 10:12:13 AM
Post by: Twinimage on November 17, 2014, 10:22:41 AM
Post by: Cyanide on November 19, 2014, 02:01:46 AM
Also, an active help section generally shows an active community. Means more people are coming in.
Post by: O Ilusionista on November 19, 2014, 06:27:45 AM
Quote
It is entirely possible to give impersonal advice and feedback.Saddly, this is not true everywhere. Some "veterans" thinks they can be harsh and bash anyone without giving a proper feedback just because they are veterans. And because they have friends who will lick their balls.
Thanks God, this doesn't happens everywhere.
Post by: Arkady on November 19, 2014, 04:00:21 PM
Saddly, this is not true everywhere. Some "veterans" thinks they can be harsh and bash anyone without giving a proper feedback just because they are veterans. And because they have friends who will lick their balls.:w00t:
Thanks God, this doesn't happens everywhere.
VOTE FOR ILLU!!!
say NO to veteran ball lickers!
health plan for hobos
ninjitsu classes in school
vote for illu, I would
Post by: Tha Lando ( Le CROM ) on November 19, 2014, 04:45:03 PM
VOTE FOR ILLU!!!:DxDie
say NO to veteran ball lickers!
health plan for hobos
ninjitsu classes in school
vote for illu, I would
laughing so hard I cant even do a comment right for this.
Most epic speech O Illu with that bro. ^:)^
O ILU 3:16 Says say No to veteran ball lickers and thats the bottom line cause Big O says so! XD||
Post by: O Ilusionista on November 19, 2014, 08:32:45 PM
But seriously, I am very tired of that type of "veteran". For me, a veteran is someone how actually helped the community to grow, not just because he is old.
Quote
health plan for hobosTRUE hobos doesn't needs health plans. Take Lando as an example.
Post by: Tha Lando ( Le CROM ) on November 19, 2014, 08:38:46 PM
Currently I am a platinum HMD card memeber. HOBO MAKE DUE! XD||
honestly just a card with silver spray paint on it and a lil dirt smudge. lol
Post by: trexrell44 on November 19, 2014, 09:27:35 PM
I say this to make this point. People get excited about fined tuned creations and innovations in any genre. That keeps it fresh and it helps bring in new and better talent. :O Ilusionista: has and continue to do this with bringing 3d sprites into the mix.
I think the community should continue to be friendly to noobs. I also am in the corner where the community should evolve into a more high quality and innovative place. We been doing pal swaps since the invention of the program. I eagerly await releases from some of the "Veterans". because I know their will be solid releases. Verz,Zvitor,Loganir, :O Ilusionista:, and a bunch of more guys i know I am missing , I just wanted to name a few.
I always thought we needed a hall of fame in the comic book Mugen community. That way we all would have something to strive for and it would encourage more creativity and competition which would bring in more players... creators LOL. Not to mention much better creations.
Post by: O Ilusionista on November 19, 2014, 10:38:42 PM
I kinda feel myself paid for all the years of working with those words :)
Post by: Arkady on November 19, 2014, 11:12:07 PM
Post by: Cyanide on November 19, 2014, 11:53:25 PM
Post by: ELECTRO on November 20, 2014, 04:11:51 AM
146,659 views and all male.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/hulkgray/guys_zps5ea284ad.png) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/hulkgray/media/guys_zps5ea284ad.png.html)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/hulkgray/anylysitcs_zps22b05f59.png) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/hulkgray/media/anylysitcs_zps22b05f59.png.html)
Post by: volzzilla on November 20, 2014, 10:06:25 AM
Saddly, this is not true everywhere. Some "veterans" thinks they can be harsh and bash anyone without giving a proper feedback just because they are veterans. And because they have friends who will lick their balls.
Thanks God, this doesn't happens everywhere.
awesome post and very true :)
Post by: Tha Lando ( Le CROM ) on November 20, 2014, 10:35:59 AM
competitionAll that great post you did bro Trex and THIS!
Ohhhh yeah bru cause we need a rematch one day. Hobos dont do no stinkin ties man! Ok we dirty and a lil smelly sometimes...most times.... I need deoderant anyway and can of Axe....anyway....Rematch one day Trex! I wll improve so I can take you DOWN! \-/o
vote for O illu! Say no to Vet Ball Licking! XD||
Post by: verz36 on November 20, 2014, 01:33:26 PM
I really see that the community has divided in the last few years. When I first came on board things where different and I really miss those days. People had more respect for others works. New guys coming in will quickly learn that respecting others work was the way to keep growing as a community. Now you got guys that don't teach the new guys about this things. All this does is get the great guys discouraged and it helps them quit before their time is up.
I guess people don't see or don't want to see what's really important about Making characters. And that is called originality. I remember when I first started I was making electro into a cyclops in disguised. And a good friend of mines helped me see and pushed me to do something better and I today thank maccready for that. In today's mugen world I don't see more original work, guys are either lacking talent or they are lazy. A lot of them lost the respect for people's work and that is sinking this hobby down. As a result you see a bunch of half assed characters. And worst of all if you give critique then they get butt hurt by that. I used to try to help guys out but now I stay quiet and mind my business because all those guys do its get mad and hate you for it.
The scene it's getting crazy with all this event. For us to get far and grow, we have to get back to respecting others and try to be original. also a lot of this guys want to make characters without knowing how to sprite first. I been saying it over and over that practice makes better. I see so many new guys with potential but nobody to guide them in the right direction or with the wrong guidance.
It's true about people saying harsh things about new guys characters when they should help out by pointing out the problems. We should help them out with positive critique. But there people in this hobby out to troll and discourage people because their creations are not on par with others.
I think back then it was better because more people had respect and didn't steal as much like today. It was when we saw more unique characters. And more good creators doing wips.
Post by: Arkady on November 20, 2014, 03:00:33 PM
very true
I'm having a bit of issue this week with a few characters I've released that i had been making for a long time, my issue is totally my own, due to forgetting to credit those who have either helped on them, or simply ive forgotten what work i had used (when i have used it with intensions to contact and credit) most of the time i use things for place holders, or simply have yet to resprite an animation from a template i have overwritten,
this is very common, for those who create characters of a base that already exists, like toad wip using scarlet spider as the template, cuts down animation alignments for the bulk of the wip
anyways, not crediting is not good, but giving benefit of the doubt, should be the first course when asking or mentioning to a creator what they have used/borrowed, without credit or permission
ive been basically harassed before explanation, on these sorts of "lack of crediting" my view on the matter is pretty simple, ask before accuse,
I'm a grown up i have a fairly open mind, I'm not in the business of ripping people off, I'm human and will make mistakes, trouble is everyone is so quick to point fingers, and accuse, before finding out if things were intentionally done in stealing, or simply forgotten to credit, or simply slipped minds,
I'm not one to ask credit for certain things, but that's upto individuals how they want to view that, so of you see something you know its your hard work ask before accusing, generally you'll find its not intentional, or something that can be resolved before flaming both parties in public, and causing unwanted fueds
Post by: trexrell44 on November 20, 2014, 11:07:41 PM
Mugen I think it's going strong still. We see new guys getting into the hobby all the time. It's true a lot of guys quit because they grow out of the hobby. But a lot of us still doing our work. I think if you love mugen then you can find time for it. That's the way I see it. I got a wife and 3 kids and I'm still spritting because I find time for it.
I really see that the community has divided in the last few years. When I first came on board things where different and I really miss those days. People had more respect for others works. New guys coming in will quickly learn that respecting others work was the way to keep growing as a community. Now you got guys that don't teach the new guys about this things. All this does is get the great guys discouraged and it helps them quit before their time is up.
I guess people don't see or don't want to see what's really important about Making characters. And that is called originality. I remember when I first started I was making electro into a cyclops in disguised. And a good friend of mines helped me see and pushed me to do something better and I today thank maccready for that. In today's mugen world I don't see more original work, guys are either lacking talent or they are lazy. A lot of them lost the respect for people's work and that is sinking this hobby down. As a result you see a bunch of half assed characters. And worst of all if you give critique then they get butt hurt by that. I used to try to help guys out but now I stay quiet and mind my business because all those guys do its get mad and hate you for it.
The scene it's getting crazy with all this event. For us to get far and grow, we have to get back to respecting others and try to be original. also a lot of this guys want to make characters without knowing how to sprite first. I been saying it over and over that practice makes better. I see so many new guys with potential but nobody to guide them in the right direction or with the wrong guidance.
It's true about people saying harsh things about new guys characters when they should help out by pointing out the problems. We should help them out with positive critique. But there people in this hobby out to troll and discourage people because their creations are not on par with others.
I think back then it was better because more people had respect and didn't steal as much like today. It was when we saw more unique characters. And more good creators doing wips.
^
Hall of Famer
What he said lol.
We should make a Hall of Fame for all Comic Mugen and have inductees as well as retire characters,stages ect so they can not be edited or manipulated in anyway. We need credentials and accolades that need to be achieved this will make everyone go hard and RESPECT creations as well as their creators. Hall of fame fixes everything.
When I come back I want to work hard to get in. I have nothing worthy but I still look to achieve such notoriety. :cool
Post by: verz36 on November 26, 2014, 10:30:13 AM
^
Hall of Famer
What he said lol.
We should make a Hall of Fame for all Comic Mugen and have inductees as well as retire characters,stages ect so they can not be edited or manipulated in anyway. We need credentials and accolades that need to be achieved this will make everyone go hard and RESPECT creations as well as their creators. Hall of fame fixes everything.
When I come back I want to work hard to get in. I have nothing worthy but I still look to achieve such notoriety. :cool
Would be cool if we can achieve your idea. The comic community should get more united in this. Taking things and just giving credit it's not a good thing. You would be surprised but when asking, creators might help. When doing an edit of a character some creators are ok with this and some not. Still at the end it's important to respect the creator if you like his work because it helps in that creator to continue with making more characters.
Maybe you should start that idea and take it across the forums and see which ones buy into it. It might help bring the community together. I don't see why they wouldn't unless they do things for their own purpose. Still the ones that do, will help get things a step ahead.
Post by: Superjoker on November 26, 2014, 05:38:12 PM
there too much of this and not enough collaborating-co-creating.... ;*))
:-??
Post by: Twinimage on November 26, 2014, 11:44:59 PM
Post by: WizzyWhipitWonderful on November 27, 2014, 06:56:37 AM
Co-creating is hard because both people want to use their ideas and go with their artistic preferences. Now there are some duos where one sprites and one codes, that's cool, but very little do you see people spriting together. That's a very fine line to walk. That takes time and developing a good working relationship with that person. Again, not saying it can't work out well, just saying there's reasons why we see less of that. :P
If I were good at spriting (I can sketch my butt off), I'd collaborate with anyone and everyone! Learning new different ways to complete a process is always useful.
Post by: Twinimage on November 27, 2014, 12:40:03 PM
Post by: trexrell44 on November 27, 2014, 11:35:50 PM
Would be cool if we can achieve your idea. The comic community should get more united in this. Taking things and just giving credit it's not a good thing. You would be surprised but when asking, creators might help. When doing an edit of a character some creators are ok with this and some not. Still at the end it's important to respect the creator if you like his work because it helps in that creator to continue with making more characters.
Maybe you should start that idea and take it across the forums and see which ones buy into it. It might help bring the community together. I don't see why they wouldn't unless they do things for their own purpose. Still the ones that do, will help get things a step ahead.
I was thinking about this for a long time. I was always a big fan of Volz's character reviews and rankings that was taken down. It really showed off some of the better creations. I will like to base it off of the top creations and creators which exist now. The only thing about it is that their would have to be some dedicated moderators and elected voters to represent everyone. Since I would really like to get in, that would pose a problem but if that is a sacrifice that would need to be made for the community I guess my creations days would be numbered.