hyper damage

[YoungSamurai5]

what do you guys feel that is appropriate damage for level 1,2, and 3 hypers?

[O Ilusionista]

Well, I use this formula. Some people clams its too much, but its based on my own reasearch

lvl1- 300
lvl2 - 450
lvl3 - 750

[Kazander13]

I would agree with those numbers for the most part.  Typically, I would be more variable with the level 3 super though, say in the range of 500-700 depending on the type of character there is.  If it is a melee type character or one who has difficulty in combo-hyper transitions, I usually go to the higher end and lower the number for projectile heavy characters just to balance out the risk and reward.  I don't always follow that as each character is going to be inherently different.  My level one would also start as low as 250.  The last thing to take into consideration is the frame count of the move and how easy it is to connect, if it's difficult to land, take the damage up a notch, if it is low risk then lower it a bit.

[Space (DCL)]

I like O Ilusionista's but I go with these...

Level 1: 225-270
Level 2: 300-350
Level 3: 350-500

[YoungSamurai5]

very interesting guys, thank you for you feedback on this topic

[O Ilusionista]

say in the range of 500-700 depending on the type of character there is. 

Yes, the level 3, for me, could range from 700 until 900. Take Shungokusatsu for example, it almost kills you.

I like O Ilusionista's but I go with these...

Level 1: 225-270
Level 2: 300-350
Level 3: 350-500

I think if the lvl 1 does 225, 350 for a level 3 is a bit weak, because it consumes 3 whole bars

[Space (DCL)]

Yes, the level 3, for me, could range from 700 until 900. Take Shungokusatsu for example, it almost kills you.

I think if the lvl 1 does 225, 350 for a level 3 is a bit weak, because it consumes 3 whole bars

The damage depends on the character's own physical strengths. One main reason I said 350 for level 3 was because in a post i read a very long time ago on another forum that the user complained about a shoto based character, even though balanced, did way too much damage with a level 3 of over 600. Aside from that, 350-500 is my choice unless it's some final desperation move, that's when I choose over 500 - 700.

[O Ilusionista]

yes, I know, Tank type chars like Hulk should do more damage. My Red Cyclone does 200 with a special move, the pile driver

[Kazander13]

Exactly, like I had mentioned before, I really believe it is up to each individual character.  A well balanced character like DCL mentioned probably shouldn't do quite so much hyper damage if for say, he has superior reach, speed, and attack power rolled up with well balanced and easy to land supers.  I think the numbers everyone posted is fair in one aspect or another, but when you deal with MUGEN, that character that may be balanced in one person's game is not so balanced in another. 

At the end of the day it all boils down to perspective and environmental elements.

[Cyanide]

As i stated on guild the damage should differ based on the super. Something like a throw should deal more damage than a full screen if you consider level 3. I honestly don't think a level 3 should do more than 50% damage.

The more a move is telegraphed the more damage it can do. With something like SGS, you can't combo into it. You can see it coming. It's a close range throw. If you do it at the wrong time it's pretty vulnerable to being countered. It has a lot of recovery. Also, it's toned down quite a lot from SF3 onwards.

Most close range moves are unblockable. The most extreme example i can think of for damage is Daimons HSDM in 2k2. For this he must be less than 1/4 health. In MAX mode. You may then do the move, it has a leadin animation. It will only hit a standing opponent. If you crouch or jump it misses. No actual blocking required. This does 95% damage but when you look at the requirements, if you're on 25% health it's basically a win or lose move. KoF does such high damage you're liable to die in the next few hits.

[O Ilusionista]

I honestly don't think a level 3 should do more than 50% damage.

Depends too much of which kind of move we are talking. But, most of mine, my lvl3 hypers does more than that.

[Acey]

As i stated on guild the damage should differ based on the super. Something like a throw should deal more damage than a full screen if you consider level 3. I honestly don't think a level 3 should do more than 50% damage.

The more a move is telegraphed the more damage it can do. With something like SGS, you can't combo into it. You can see it coming. It's a close range throw. If you do it at the wrong time it's pretty vulnerable to being countered. It has a lot of recovery. Also, it's toned down quite a lot from SF3 onwards.

Most close range moves are unblockable. The most extreme example i can think of for damage is Daimons HSDM in 2k2. For this he must be less than 1/4 health. In MAX mode. You may then do the move, it has a leadin animation. It will only hit a standing opponent. If you crouch or jump it misses. No actual blocking required. This does 95% damage but when you look at the requirements, if you're on 25% health it's basically a win or lose move. KoF does such high damage you're liable to die in the next few hits.

I agree with Cyanide's assertion. I use a general range very close to what DCL posted too. A level 3 hyper should typically do less than two level 1 hypers combined because you're making a decision to do more damage with one attack rather than risking doing less damamge in order to save meter to try to covert into a hyper later. This is very much a "versus series" style of hyper attack. It's a risk versus award system.

[Cyanide]

Depends too much of which kind of move we are talking. But, most of mine, my lvl3 hypers does more than that.

In most fighting games there are very few level 3's that deal more than 50%. Shuma Gorath's Chaos Dimension in MSHvSF for example will still leave an opponent alive after 2 of them. (i have tested) although the next hit will absolutely cause death. And i'm NOT starting something here, but most of your characters do tend to deal what is seen as too much damage by most of the community.

There are other exceptions, like say, K'groove in CvS which can deal tons with a single super, but when you consider the bar is only charged by being hit and you have lots of limitations within the mode this is pretty reasonable.

Simply saying "It's level 3 therefore it needs to deal a lot of damage" is wrong. Level 3's get more special properties than level 1's. You pay for some of those properties with the power used and sacrifice other things.

2k2 again. Roberts SDM deals about 40% damage. It takes 2 bars and you can combo into it, it lets him dash across the screen and is blockable. Roberts HSDM requires 2 bars and 25% life. It's unblockable, but you can't combo into it and it deals slightly less damage than the SDM. The drop in damage and the lack of comboability is made up for by it being unblockable on a dashing attack.

[Snakebyte]

My personal $0.02 is that O Ilu's numbers feel right on his Spec Ops characters, because they're super over the top anyway and consistent with eachother, but I probably wouldn't want to see over 50% on anyone else without giving something else up in return. Infinite's numbers and SeanAltly's numbers (two people off the top of my head who have done a lot of quality work over many different chars, like O Ilu, and must have systems set up) seem like they'd be better for general use.

[YoungSamurai5]

another question, how much powergain should hyper get, if any at all?

[O Ilusionista]

In most fighting games there are very few level 3's that deal more than 50%. Shuma Gorath's Chaos Dimension in MSHvSF for example will still leave an opponent alive after 2 of them. (i have tested) although the next hit will absolutely cause death.

ShunGokustatsu is one of them.

And i'm NOT starting something here, but most of your characters do tend to deal what is seen as too much damage by most of the community.

That is okay to me, no offense taken   As cliché as it may sound, I do chars for myself and I enjoy making then dealing such ammount of damage. Its something set in the stone and I won't change it (or I already had changed it, after all those years). I just hate when chars does little damage. I miss the old SF2 days where the moves REALLY hurts.

Simply saying "It's level 3 therefore it needs to deal a lot of damage" is wrong.

...as wrong saying "its too much damage" just because the "community" thinks that way. 3 lvl1 should do more damage then a single lvl3, to balance things a bit, but a lvl 3 have to do way more damage than a lvl1, to me.

Again, Shungokustatsu is comboable from the moves it is being made (ie the punches and kicks). And I never take KOF as a reference because I really don't like that franchise.

I really don't see a problem with high numbers, specially when is someone which is a mammoth and/or a heavy hitter.

I think exactly the way Syn thinks: the "community" is okay to follow if you follow standards...but I do not folllow

Its not a rule or a law. Its more like a guide: you are free to follow if you want.
This is mugen is about to me: to do the things the way we like. Sure, trying to make good stuff, but not need to strictly follow any "rule".

 

PS: don't take it personally because it isn't. Neither I want to be the "revolutionary of mugen". I just like things that way.

[YoungSamurai5]

i feel like my question got skipped over but cool speech O

[O Ilusionista]

Oh, sorry. About how much power get, I never change the normal values of mugen, just when the char doesnt needs to NOT get power, like in hyper moves

[Space (DCL)]

Oh, sorry. About how much power get, I never change the normal values of mugen, just when the char doesnt needs to NOT get power, like in hyper moves

This is what Ive been starting to do...

PowerAdd For P1:
Whiffing Light Attacks: 14
Whiffing Medium Attacks: 41
Whiffing Hard Attacks: 56
Whiffing Special Attacks: 14
Attacks Hit (Non Hyper Attacks): Damage Given x .9
Attacks Guarded (Non Hyper Attacks): Damage Given x .7

PowerAdd for P2:
P2 Gets Hit By Attack: Damage Taken x .6
P2 Guards Attacks: Damage Taken x .4

[O Ilusionista]

hum, nice, I will note it.

[YoungSamurai5]

very interesting dcl, i like that