Clayface Beta#1 release

[.ALEXZIQ.]

Hey my Dear Friends at IMT, and my 1st Mugen Forum I wanted to share JMAXXIMUS, and I's Release of Clayface.



http://crusadercast.com/index.php?topic=12726.msg126848;topicseen#new

[YoungSamurai5]

let the excitement begin 

[.ALEXZIQ.]

You first few downloaders may want to redownload.

There was an AI error that was using the rolling rock move too often, and wasnt using the hypers.

Just if you want him to play a little better in watch mode, or as an opponent

[animaraz]

¡¡¡Genial!!! Very, very thanks!!!

[HyperVoiceActing]

*I think his standing fierce punch could use more range
*His QCB+K attack maybe you can add a trail between Clay and the pillar, like you did with his QCB+P attack
*His steamroller hyper it infinitely keeps hitting
*This is more of a nitpick but his pal colors, outside of pal 1 and maybe pals 2 and 6, look ridiculous
*Again another nitpicky thing: I know what you were trying to go with for his voice clips (Ron Perlman, his TAS voice actor) but the quality of said clips is really bad. Maybe you should have someone voice the clips instead of ripping them.

Other than that, he's a really great char. I can tell JMaxx put a lot of effort into the sprites. Good job to the both of you 

[DevilBullDawg]

oh wow , long time coming , this is great 

[Snakebyte]

HyperSonic, there's a patch in the crusadercast release thread that fixes the infinite hyper issue. I don't know if it's been added to the main download yet though.

[HyperVoiceActing]

HyperSonic, there's a patch in the crusadercast release thread that fixes the infinite hyper issue. I don't know if it's been added to the main download yet though.

Well I think they should add it to the main download

[.ALEXZIQ.]

Done. I just wanted to make sure it worked before adding it to the main downloads

Thanks guys I copied all feedback so far into my notes. I will fix in the near future

[davismaximus]

After a few minutes of testing, a little feedback:
-D, DB, B, P can cancel into itself, you can repeat until the opponent dies
-Both throws could use some "clay" sounds
-Ease up on envshake during walk
-No envshake on jump landing?
-No sound on jump up
-D, DF, F, P can cancel into itself a few times
-D, DF, F, K can cancel into itself a few times, I've even had him fall through the floor doing it after doing this with the aerial version
-D, DB, B, K could use a sound for the clay moving along the floor
-D, DF, F, P (in air) does no damage
-Perhaps slow down the timing on his heavy punches/kicks

I'm digging the sprite work by JMaxx, but perhaps a few tweaks could be done to make him a bit less Hulkish.  Also, some animations could benefit from an extra frame or two (standing HP and HK, D, DB, B, K).

Definitely promising for a beta, looking forward to the subsequent updates. 

[Yun0]

he´s too... hulk...

[HyperVoiceActing]

Yeah, maybe you should edit him to look less like Hulk

[SanjiSasuke]

I think the animations are too close to hulk, but the sprites on their own look good.

[fer619]

thanks for releasing clayface, alexziq! 

[O Ilusionista]

I was awaiting for this char, I will download it to take a look.

BTW, which forum is that?

[Snakebyte]

I was awaiting for this char, I will download it to take a look.

BTW, which forum is that?

Crusadercast is CVG with a new name.

[xxxXx]

Great dude, love DC chars

His portraits (9000,0 and 9000,1) are a bit misalligned. I'd also suggest a slightly different portrait, like this:

[AxKeeper]

he´s too... hulk...

I doubt Jmax is gonna re-sprite him  It's a tall order for s spriter to redo it all 

I personally don't like his look also but he has some very creative moves and he is the first Clayface for mugen not from a game rip.

Sometimes there can be a revamp, it's happened a lot recently with some wips, but if it doesn't come I am sure there will be other Clayface's to come in the future.


P.S. I am still testing him out, looks promising though. 

[Jmaxximus]

I think the animations are too close to hulk, but the sprites on their own look good.

I was thinking that to but when I watched him on the animated show his walk and demeanor where like that. Hulk has a great base to him and I enjoyed respriting him. I will go back and make some changes to him in the future, I dont think to much of him is going to change.

I have new ideas on for some moves to give him but thats about it.

Thanks for all the feedback and the comments on the sprites.

[I-Skorp-I]

His intro and outro sounds need to be turned up aswell i can barely here them even when im useing him on a stage with no music or a char with no sound

[Shadic54]

WOHO!

[CleanCheeks]

Can someone send him to me. Crusadercast wont let me download him and keeps sending me back to other pages

[Cyanide]

Copy paste from Guild

# Jumping animation is slightly misaligned and the frames need moving around within it, his actions while jumping do not look natural.
# Walk speed is incorrect for animation, this involves sliding feet  and is that it looks wrong rather than any innaccuracy coming from the Hulk sprites
# Width is well off. Width should match clsn's. This also exposes an alignment issue in your walk animation. Take 2 clayfaces and walk them at each other. Watch how the animation acts. He's not centered properly.
# Aside from the twirling special, all other specials act pretty much exactly the same in terms of damage and what they do.
Ball at all levels, same damage, same distance, nothing differs. Shadow blob, same thing. Geyser, well it does vary it's distance, but no change in damage, I actually suggest you base on Blackheart for that move. Always close, always between the 2 opponents, and homing with close doing the most damage and homing doing the least.
# Jump land utterly does not work, that squelch is terrible. With the walk THUMP it should really be a land THUMP as well. Squelch doesn't fit.
# Still rather a lot of superman in the .sff file.
# Crouch makes him back off and the axis winds up well off center
# clsnboxes really aren't good. Use clsndefault, especially for static things like stand. If i punch it should not matter what FRAME of stand you're on for me to actually hit
# Fire Hydrant intro, axis is broken, he teleports, place the hydrant off center of the axis and make him spill out of it to the CORRECT place, don't teleport him there. Fading out the hydrant would also be a nice idea.
# Combo system is broken. Your launcher is c.HP, but i can't get into that from s.MP
# Although i'm now pretty sure it's what you're going for, every single character you guys seem to make uses the hunter chain. Due to clayface's size he would be more suited to weak>strong where you cannot combo from one light to another but must combo from light to med to strong, or light to strong along either side of the chain. Super jump comboing of course would stay hunter chain. Hulk for example uses kick to punch.
# air QCF+P, freezes in animation before hitting the ground, you sit there for a good 3-4 ticks before changing your looks and landing. As you sit about 40 pixels up this is VERY noticeable
# Animations are all the same speed and a bit too fast. There is no sense of impact on any of the heavy moves. Launcher for example, For the sake of it, time out hulks version (you're using the same sprites really) see how it improves the LOOK of the animation.
# Sound effect quality is a bit iffy. If you could re-rip the TV stuff from a better source that would e a good plan
# His throw bindings vs p2 are not friendly, nor is the distance he can do it at, it's REALLY close range.
# You get a debug error to invalid anim on the punch throw.
# I don't know if you're imitating the Vs games or what but throws are normally on the med and hard buttons, or JUST on the hard, they are not on just the medium.
# Runspeed is wtf fast compared to anything else he does. And doesn't fit with the animation either. He's going at hyper speed before he even finishes getting into blob shape. When he has finished, he has easily crossed the screen. Most Vs dashes are shorter than this and very rarely do they let you cross the screen like that and still have enough to cross most of a second screen.
# Recovery roll on get up. My god, you go like a bullet. And much too far. and you keep going even when you should have stopped.

The template i believe is a flawed. Lots of this shouldn't be in your basis (cos they're honestly silly things)

I like the editing, it's consistent and mostly fluent for the detail of it. I think you have too many supers vs specials but that's a bit by the by. I have no problem with any of the moves, i can see various characters in there. Can i suggest Shigen from LB2 as a possibly body you may want to take some things off. Maybe Twelve as well.

Minor gripe. Download page. The download link is actually LESS obvious than the "next download | previous download" links. Those need to be shifted to the bottom and the actual DL enlarged a bit.

[Space (DCL)]

Copy paste from Guild

# Jumping animation is slightly misaligned and the frames need moving around within it, his actions while jumping do not look natural.
# Walk speed is incorrect for animation, this involves sliding feet  and is that it looks wrong rather than any innaccuracy coming from the Hulk sprites
# Width is well off. Width should match clsn's. This also exposes an alignment issue in your walk animation. Take 2 clayfaces and walk them at each other. Watch how the animation acts. He's not centered properly.
# Aside from the twirling special, all other specials act pretty much exactly the same in terms of damage and what they do.
Ball at all levels, same damage, same distance, nothing differs. Shadow blob, same thing. Geyser, well it does vary it's distance, but no change in damage, I actually suggest you base on Blackheart for that move. Always close, always between the 2 opponents, and homing with close doing the most damage and homing doing the least.
# Jump land utterly does not work, that squelch is terrible. With the walk THUMP it should really be a land THUMP as well. Squelch doesn't fit.
# Still rather a lot of superman in the .sff file.
# Crouch makes him back off and the axis winds up well off center
# clsnboxes really aren't good. Use clsndefault, especially for static things like stand. If i punch it should not matter what FRAME of stand you're on for me to actually hit
# Fire Hydrant intro, axis is broken, he teleports, place the hydrant off center of the axis and make him spill out of it to the CORRECT place, don't teleport him there. Fading out the hydrant would also be a nice idea.
# Combo system is broken. Your launcher is c.HP, but i can't get into that from s.MP
# Although i'm now pretty sure it's what you're going for, every single character you guys seem to make uses the hunter chain. Due to clayface's size he would be more suited to weak>strong where you cannot combo from one light to another but must combo from light to med to strong, or light to strong along either side of the chain. Super jump comboing of course would stay hunter chain. Hulk for example uses kick to punch.
# air QCF+P, freezes in animation before hitting the ground, you sit there for a good 3-4 ticks before changing your looks and landing. As you sit about 40 pixels up this is VERY noticeable
# Animations are all the same speed and a bit too fast. There is no sense of impact on any of the heavy moves. Launcher for example, For the sake of it, time out hulks version (you're using the same sprites really) see how it improves the LOOK of the animation.
# Sound effect quality is a bit iffy. If you could re-rip the TV stuff from a better source that would e a good plan
# His throw bindings vs p2 are not friendly, nor is the distance he can do it at, it's REALLY close range.
# You get a debug error to invalid anim on the punch throw.
# I don't know if you're imitating the Vs games or what but throws are normally on the med and hard buttons, or JUST on the hard, they are not on just the medium.
# Runspeed is wtf fast compared to anything else he does. And doesn't fit with the animation either. He's going at hyper speed before he even finishes getting into blob shape. When he has finished, he has easily crossed the screen. Most Vs dashes are shorter than this and very rarely do they let you cross the screen like that and still have enough to cross most of a second screen.
# Recovery roll on get up. My god, you go like a bullet. And much too far. and you keep going even when you should have stopped.

The template i believe is a flawed. Lots of this shouldn't be in your basis (cos they're honestly silly things)

I like the editing, it's consistent and mostly fluent for the detail of it. I think you have too many supers vs specials but that's a bit by the by. I have no problem with any of the moves, i can see various characters in there. Can i suggest Shigen from LB2 as a possibly body you may want to take some things off. Maybe Twelve as well.

Minor gripe. Download page. The download link is actually LESS obvious than the "next download | previous download" links. Those need to be shifted to the bottom and the actual DL enlarged a bit.

I strongly recommend you heed what Cyanide has left for feedback...look at each one carefully and fix what the issues have. You will not be disappointed...

[.ALEXZIQ.]

Absolutely. Most are not difficult fixes, but there are some things I need to get some further opinion on. I posted this at MFG in response:

That's awesome.

I have to thank you for that detailed breakdown. That's exactly why I am greatful to MFG. I wouldve actually put up my own release here, I just got beat to it.

Most of these I think I can correct pretty quick. The jump land, and walking speed, and alignement issues are easy, and I think the combos got messed up by a last minute change I did based on some feedback without thinking it through.

Yeah the Template has some flaws. As the "mysterious" Mr. Henderson pointed out a ways back the Template was stolen from the Scruffy Dragon Template. (not sure how you can steal a creation tool, but I digress) So I cant really take credit for their flaws, however I do own up to not fixing those.  I think replacing the dash, and recovery rolls with more mechanically sound versions needs to be a priority.

Many teams have a habit of using "mystic blaze's" flawed recover roll so this is something we need to be aware of because it's already used in dozens of characters. I really must eat crow because Toni pointed this flaw out to me a year ago, and I decided to keep it because so many other characters use it, and well comic fans will tell you their stuff is great so I let it go in one ear and out the other. I even replaced it at one point and changed it back (DOH!)

Can I ask a question? Do you guys have a recovery roll, or dash that is generally a little more suited for a template?

I really would like to see these issues addressed. While I am aware these things need customized for every character theres gotta be better examples for newbs. I am not much of gameplay guy, and am more of a button masher so suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Thank you so much!

[Cyanide]

Well each characters dash does actually act a little differently. Most of them however are a limited number of ticks, cross about 2/3rds of the screen and slow down near the end. Special cases made for Shuma's backdash and blackhearts dashes.

If you want a good example of how the dash works for your template. Download my Omega Red and take his. It's 100% game accurate so altering the vels slightly will give you what you're after.

Recovery roll i didn't actually code... crap. I suppose i could get a game accurate version of that set up as well.

[.ALEXZIQ.]

The dash would be an awesome help. Thank you much. With recovery rolls a lot of new people use what's there so if they at least have a semi accurate version to use that's gotta at least be better than what's in there at present.

Thanks again for all the input

[Loganir]

The dash would be an awesome help. Thank you much. With recovery rolls a lot of new people use what's there so if they at least have a semi accurate version to use that's gotta at least be better than what's in there at present.

Thanks again for all the input

Finally a DC comics counterpart for Sandman!

The recovery roll command and behavior on all MvsC games it's different from that one of Mystic blaze.
you have to do a reverse fireball motion (B,DB,D) + any punch or kick button

You can build a more apropried MvsC Recovery Roll based on this one:

http://mugenguild.com/forum/topics/code-snippet-archive-43756.20.html

I used this to create a custom MvsC Recovery Roll for Sandman, check it how this works
if you want to use it or any other code.
And don't worry... there's not Scruffy template in my works   

Nice concepts on Clayface!
mixing some new bases could be great to add more variety to his moveset.
Congratulations to Jmmaximus work

[Acey]

Little factoid... the "just hold back" or "just hold forward" recovery roll was not implimented into the MvC series until MvC3 in 2011. This is exactly 5 years after IMT incorporated it into the EoH project.

[Loganir]

Little factoid... the "just hold back" or "just hold forward" recovery roll was not implimented into the MvC series until MvC3 in 2011. This is exactly 5 years after IMT incorporated it into the EoH project.

That's a interesting fact
You right! I forgot Capcom changed that to something similar to SFA3 in the last year.

[.ALEXZIQ.]

Little factoid... the "just hold back" or "just hold forward" recovery roll was not implimented into the MvC series until MvC3 in 2011. This is exactly 5 years after IMT incorporated it into the EoH project.

hah! We often chat at ccmf chatroom about "certain" thing capcom ssems to "borrow" from mugen. I will have to point that out next time it comes up. I appreciatethat tidbit!

[.ALEXZIQ.]

Oh and thank you loganir for the link to that recovery roll. I think that is the one I used before and ended up changing back to blazes. Good to know I was on the right track. I notice you didn't use the template I mentioned. Iguess that should've been my first clue. But any way thanks to cyanide and loganir for giving me some solid info to improve things moving forward. Goint to add these fixes to Hellboy right now!