Two-Face By COMMUNITY

[DARKTALBAIN]

It's not an ego issue. This is a simple design, purposefully such that a new creator could learn with it. Gen here is chomping at the bit to get a green light from us to WIP this... and he's not grasping the basics of the design.

People forget that learning to edit comes before trying a WIP. The things he's doing wrong show a lack of editing fundamentals. That's all.

What's sprite editing I just make characters  

I disagree with your statement here . Not everyone should learn things , the unlimited way , the DT way , or the IMT way , etc .....

I think people should learn on their own . It's what gives us a different style . People can always tell my sprites , you know why ? Because I do things my way , same thing with Z999 , or others . Z makes some excellent edits too .

I would rather have my own style than be a carbon copy of unlimited or anyone else . batzarro is a prime example he used to have his own style , now his Bane looks like anyone of the team unlimited could have made that .  Personally I like being unique .

I would never tell anyone to just give up that was trying to learn .

I'm not trying to turn this into a huge debate . I'm just saying to cut the new creator some slack & let him be creative .

@ Genziroz

I agree with Alexziq , you have made great improvements since a couple of days ago . But ......

He needs to be somewhat smaller , sprites the actual hands , instead of with gloves on them . Use guns from Jill & characters that have more realistic looking weapons .

[Alexziq]

The only reason he told him to sit this one out was because he needs to learn how to edit sprites before taking on a W.I.P.You might not like what he said but its the truth and its honest feedback and i agree 100%.You know how long it takes to make W.I.P's and at the rate of his spriting he might have of problems later down the road.

Sitting out is not feedback.

Sorry but I dont think its the truth. Ive seen guys told the same thing who went on to create great characters by learning to improve their sprites through a WIP, including a guy I am working with now.

I guess we agree to disagree 

[Genziroz]

thanks to alexziq and Darktalbain for them great comments and for the other i dont care about your opinions.... your judge make me be a better spriter and i want to know the really truth of your opinion... i dont angry with any of yours... thanks all of you for your comments... i will try it better....

about the size.... i compared it whit the batman of IMT and his real size looks like my two face... because Batman seems to be crouch in all of his sprites.... but i found one of them that shows his real size and looks like my two face size... you can look here

really i think he didnt need to be rezised... but if you want... i will try with other size... remember that Batman its a little cruch and two face is straight...

thanks again for you comments... and dont make this topic a discution.... all the comments will be resived...

about the gun its the only one that i remeber in this moment xD

ok ideas
not sure if these are gud but what ever comes out of my mind

1) flips coin and you see either heads or tails (shoot them or rush and combo them)
2) joker helper
3) machine gun hyper
4) acid throw
5) knife attack
6) poisonous gas/spray
7) rocket launcher hyper
8 ) intro wiv racheal dawes
9) throw coin attack
10) shot gun special

your ideas are very good thank you

[Alexziq]

What's sprite editing I just make characters 

I disagree with your statement here . Not everyone should learn things , the unlimited way , the DT way , or the IMT way , etc .....

I think people should learn on there own . It's what gives us a different style . People can always tell my sprites , you know why ? Because I do things my way , same thing with Z999 , or others . Z makes some excellent edits too .

I would rather have my own style than be a carbon copy of unlimited or anyone else . batzarro is a prime example he used to have his own style , now his Bane looks like anyone of the team unlimited could made done that .  Personally I like being unique .

I would never tell anyone to just give up that was trying to learn .

I'm not trying to turn this into a huge debate . I'm just saying to cut the new creator some slack & let him be creative .

@ Genziroz

I agree with Alexziq , you have made great improvements since a couple of days ago . But ......

He needs to be somewhat smaller , sprites the actual hands , instead of with gloves on them . Use guns from Jill & characters that have more realistic looking weapons .

  
Post Merge: July 03, 2009, 11:46:18 AM

thanks to alexziq and Darktalbain for them great comments and for the other i dont care about your opinions.... your judge make me be a better spriter and i want to know the really truth of your opinion... i dont angry with any of yours... thanks all of you for your comments... i will try it better....

about the size.... i compared it whit the batman of IMT and his real size looks like my two face... because Batman seems to be crouch in all of his sprites.... but i found one of them that shows his real size and looks like my two face size... you can look here

really i think he didnt need to be rezised... but if you want... i will try with other size... remember that Batman its a little cruch and two face is straight...

thanks again for you comments... and dont make this topic a discution.... all the comments will be resived...

about the gun its the only one that i remeber in this moment xD

I will send you some gun sprites to use for your IMT project wip

[Genziroz]

i someone of you didnt know very well two face here is a video

see ya

[DARKTALBAIN]

about the size.... i compared it whit the batman of IMT and his real size looks like my two face... because Batman seems to be crouch in all of his sprites.... but i found one of them that shows his real size and looks like my two face size... you can look here

really i think he didnt need to be rezised... but if you want... i will try with other size... remember that Batman its a little cruch and two face is straight...

Think about it this way , The Batman sprite you used the one leg he is standing on is straight . Yet Twoface's knees are bent . But he is still as tall as Batman . ( Don't count bat's ears.. ) See what I am getting at ? If Twoface's knees were straight he would be taller than the bat . He does need to be resized smaller

[The King Sic-1™]

Here ya go...re-sized



you just need to change the gun and re-size the hands.


And here is the edit I did of two-face so you can see what he looks like standing straight up.

[Genziroz]

welll here i have the first atack.... only change his face and something more... but its just a little stuff....

[R.I.C.O - Teros]

Wow, this is turning out really good. Keep up the excellent work.

[KPT25]

Much better now...the resizing really helped the look
I like how this is turning out,good luck with future progress!
As others mentioned before,his hands are way too big to look realistic,swap them out for other hands that are smaller:Just compare the standing sprite you have,without gloves and the one holding the gun

[Genziroz]

xD i didnt make resize yet xD

[The King Sic-1™]

i think they where talking about the resize i did.

[Acey]

True, IMT Batman is hunched in his stance. Here is the current version that's being updated for a better reference:

[HornTitan]

That Batman looks too feeble and weak to me, Alucard's is much better, keep trying Acey, the head looks okay but the rest needs improvement.

Anyway, yeah don't pay attention to put downs like that, part of creating a character is learning it. I learned and improved and created all at once. To me it's about experiencing it and trial and error. The most experienced and veteran creators will tell you that.

So typical the elitist point of view to say "just don't try anymore" says a lot about a person's ego of how great they think they are. Continue your work, and keep the base and keep trying to improve it as you create it and I'm sure it'll be great.

*I would suggest editing the existing face and not really changing it that much, but rather making it reseamble Two-Face is enough.

*Try simple recoloring, when you are satisfied with that add and edit in the new features like a new yellow eye and skin features. Then try the hair and experiment with blending. Spriting with a reference picture can help a lot  

*Also try frankenspriting from the same character to create new stances and other stuff to make it a non-clone of the original base.  

[Alexziq]

That Batman looks too feeble and weak to me, Alucard's is much better, keep trying Acey, the head looks okay but the rest needs improvement.

Anyway, yeah don't pay attention to put downs like that, part of creating a character is learning it. I learned and improved and created all at once. To me it's about experiencing it and trial and error. The most experienced and veteran creators will tell you that.

So typical the elitist point of view to say "just don't try anymore" says a lot about a person's ego of how great they think they are. Continue your work, and keep the base and keep trying to improve it as you create it and I'm sure it'll be great.

*I would suggest editing the existing face and not really changing it that much, but rather making it reseamble Two-Face is enough.

*Try simple recoloring, when you are satisfied with that add and edit in the new features like a new yellow eye and skin features. Then try the hair and experiment with blending. Spriting with a reference picture can help a lot  

*Also try frankenspriting from the same character to create new stances and other stuff to make it a non-clone of the original base.  

Well I think you have a lot of good points, but I dont think feeble, and weak is accurate for the IMT Bats. The IMT Batman reminds me a lot of d*** Grayson the current Batman. Grayson to me is much more agile, and sleak like Batman was in the late 60's, and 70's when Denny Oneil, and Neal Adams were the creative team behind Batman. Modern day Batman creators like Frank Miller, Jim Lee, Paul Dini, and Grant Morrison hail Oneil, and Adams as the quintessential Batman creators that took Batman out of the campy 60's TV show Batman into the modern day darker image that all of the above creators were influenced by.

I think we too often focus on the modern incarnations of the character without appreciating the roots of where the characters come from. Batman is a character with a lot of differant phases, and like Spiderman has a ton of differant interpretations in Mugen. Thats why we as fans tend to luv multiple interpretations, and luv having the various versions in our roster.

[Acey]

That Batman looks too feeble and weak to me, Alucard's is much better, keep trying Acey, the head looks okay but the rest needs improvement.

Don't worry, I won't force you to download Batman.

welll here i have the first atack.... only change his face and something more... but its just a little stuff....

Looks like he'll have some great frame rate.

[HornTitan]

Oh thanks, I wouldn't want to download it again 

Reading what alexiq said though I guess he is pretty good in that sense, in a way Adam West was kinda cool and seeing his early look does give it that authentic feel. 

[A New Challenger]

Alucard's Batman was a stolen piece of crap made from our unfinished work. Infinity's is doing it's own thing, kind of a Jim Aparo / Adam West take on Bats. Not wise, nor fair, to compare the two.

As far as Alex and DT - guys, we're not the Narc patrol over at the Unlimited. We just like to have our work adhere to certain standards. There's room for all different styles in mugen, yes. Look at SeanAlty, Borghi, Warner, Aiduzzi - all excellent creators who I totally defer to, with really unique styles. All the same, when making something as a contribution to a game - which this was offered as - cohesion is important. Would SF2 Akuma have looked right inserted into SF3?

If people are attempting Capcom style, and they do it wrong, then they'd benefit from some practice editing in Capcom style. I couldn't submit a recolored SFA3 Ryu to an SNK project like KoF Zillion, and then shout "BUT IT'S UNIQUE FROM THOSE OTHER KOF SPRITES! DON'T HATE!" when they point out that I'm doing it wrong.

Gen - seems you might be using a bad palette with low contrast, rather than the working palette Int posted. Sic's is what you should be referencing there. Still, good initiative. Maybe if you make the sheets, someone else can handle the resize.

In fact, how about we make this one a community project? I'll do a head sheet, and see if I can't frankensprite an attack or two, Sic can help Gen refine his sheets, and we'll take on more folks to help as it grows. Sic has some good suggestions for Harvey, I think. Sound good?

[Acey]

If we community project this one I'll help out a few animations as well."/;

[Intermission]

In fact, how about we make this one a community project? I'll do a head sheet, and see if I can't frankensprite an attack or two, Sic can help Gen refine his sheets, and we'll take on more folks to help as it grows. Sic has some good suggestions for Harvey, I think. Sound good?
Post Merge: July 04, 2009, 08:33:35 AM

I'm in for sure  

[Alexziq]

Well I wouldnt just turn this into a community project without talking to the guy who started the WIP. I'm sure he would luv some help, but I would let him do the bulk of the work. He seems to share what he's doing, and when he gets to a certain point you can show him some frankensprites, and whatnot. People learn by trial and error so I wouldn't just commandeer his WIP.

[The King Sic-1™]

hhmmm... well... the community WIP idea is a good one. and I'll be willing to help.

but if the guy doesn't want it to be one... well... i'm still going to be spriting two-face the way i think he should be done, and I'll make it a Personal WIP for me.

i think this is just to good of a base for two-face....

[Alexziq]

hhmmm... well... the community WIP idea is a good one. and I'll be willing to help.

but if the guy doesn't want it to be one... well... i'm still going to be spriting two-face the way i think he should be done, and I'll make it a Personal WIP for me.

i think this is just to good of a base for two-face....

Why not start your own WIP topic since you seem to have already deemed that the originator of the wips work isnt up to your standards. That seems like what some of you are intending anyway 

[A New Challenger]

Alex, I think you misunderstand the situation. Gen didn't start a WIP. He made a few sprites where he tried to work from Intermission's design, and we're trying to help the whole process be a bit more successful.

Intermission is cool with the design being open - that's what it was made for - so it's good to go from there. If it's a community WIP, nobody would be "commandeering" anything, right?

[The King Sic-1™]

Yea If it's a "community WIP"... like i said i would love to help out...

but If it's not a community WIP, i don't see why i can't make my own two-face as well?

 i've already started spriting... but my sprites would not work with the ones he already made because of the resizging,coloring, and detail i have done that has not been done on his.

but like ANC said... we are just trying to make things better.